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Don't they have the same roles as ground-attack?

What can a Warthog do that an Apache can't do ?

I say, nothing! <runs for cover in an appropriate serpentine motion>

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Besides fly 387mph?

The A-10 can carry far more ordnance over a much greater distance in a far shorter time and carries the most powerful fixed gun ever mounted in a fighter.

The Apache is great, but is generally not employed in a CAS role, but more as a deep(by Army standards) interdiction asset.

"We shall leave no man behind"

Sniper,Sniper, Sniper tsk tsk tsk, such a short memory LOL. The A-10 carries THE most powerful gun system EVER mounted on ANY platform in the history of forever, when it comes to energy on target per second. The Warthog most likely can handle more damage than Apache as well, but the "dragonfly from hell" is a pretty tough bird in it's own right, and has no match , let alone superior in the rotary wing world!

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Well...
1. The A10 does not have to worry about debris hitting the tail rotor when firing a missile or rockets.

2. The A10 can deploy from one part of Europe to another in a matter of hours instead of a matter of weeks.

3. When they get to their deployed location the A10 can usually keep from crashing a few of them and getting the fleet grounded.

4. The A10 does not have to slow all the way down to land (now I am stretching...)

5. Have you seen that Apache video of the guy trying to fly between two trees? He actually asked the other guy on board "do you think we can make it?". When the other guy said "no" the pilot remarked, "Oh, ye of little faith" then proceeded to well....not fit between the 2 trees and crash. Classic. We show all our students that one to show them by example not to do anything stupid.

6. The A10's gun does not jam as much (my apologies if that problem has been improved upon significantly in the Apache).

I can't think of any more that some one else or myself has not posted.

THe army doctrine is to utilise Apaches on the FLOT and to maintain USAF assets 5-10nm forward of the FEBA. THe apache is a very capable system. 16 Hellfires per bird equals a Nasty Skirmish for the opposing team.

It was succesfully utilised as a clandestine coordinated strike to silence Iraqs Forward GCI and CCC systems during desert storm. The same Commander that lead that attack was also the the same Commander that attempted to utilise them in Bosnia. Unfortunately the Balkan Terrain and Altitude required was excedeing the apaches abilities. Thus as usual the all mighty Hog and other Fighter assets were used heavily in the CAS, Strike and SEAD role.

If there ever was a litoral that benefited a fighters design. It surely was the Hog, and the Balkins campaigns.

"<---Jesus Powers My Hotrod---<<<"

"My purpose in life does not include a hankering to charm society."

LOL, that is a hillarious story Luke, i remember reading that once.

And yeah, the gun in the Apache is a real jammomatic.

"We shall leave no man behind"

The Apache can gun down those poor defenless infantry also comes in handy when the bad guys get a little to close to the good guys for a CBU.... but then I'm all for using a sledge hammer to kill a cockroach.

1. Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire.
2. Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

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\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

[quote]
And yeah, the gun in the Apache is a real jammomatic.

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In the first Gulf War, the Apache was nicked the Stealth Chopper because of some really bad radios. Yeah, the damn flex gun is a jammer. Plus as a bonus, it's missiles were lighting off by accident. There is a famed tale of a H-47 mech working on top of the bird, a parked and unmanned Apache cooked off a missle right near the mech and it impacted a large weapons storage area. Big light show and weapons going up in smoke.

Current models are having problems with some missile stations where they fire and leave damage on the bird. New Hellfire missile is finally a fire and forget one.

TF Normandy was the Apaches nailing the Iraqi radar site. They were led in by the Forces Pave Lows.

Cobras flew pretty damn good in the first Gulf War. Marines have some new Super Snakes and the AH-1Z is out. My question would be?? Would the next snake model be a AH-1AA?.

If you exclude the 105MM on Spectre. In WW2, we loaded up some 75MMs on B-25s. Flight crews reported they lost some speed when firing that big old cannon.

Jack

to the question of "did they ever fix the jamming problem of the M230" my Apache guy informs me:

yes... they did.

The early problems occurred because crewmembers were releasing the weapons trigger before the completion of the burst. The burst limit is set prior to flight (10, 20, 30, 50). When the gun is fired, the chain drive system accelerates to feed the gun the desired number of rounds (per the burst limit setting) and then decelerates to finish the burst. If the trigger is released mid-burst it causes a sudden stoppage. The older carrier system (think of permanently installed links for a machine gun) would bend or even break under the stress... thus causing a jam.

The carrier drive was "beefed-up" many years ago, although it is still recommended that crewmembers hold the trigger until each burst is completed.


"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Oh, cause i heard it was just that the gun system was an abortion, lol.

Good to know, thanx Booms!

"We shall leave no man behind"

if I ws McD I woulda replaced it with the GE XM-188 (a 3 barreled DEFA Vulcan) about 5 seconds after the aquisition from Hughs! My book even says the GE weighs less!!

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

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Cobras flew pretty damn good in the first Gulf War. Marines have some new Super Snakes and the AH-1Z is out. My question would be?? Would the next snake model be a AH-1AA?.

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I have a fairly close association with the manufacturer of the USMC's attack helicopter and the Flight Test of the new Z-model (i.e. I work for them). We've often joked around about how the Z-model will be called the "Super-Duper Cobra." We actually have 3 Z-model aircraft in flight test at Pax River right now as well 2 Y-model Huey's. I'm sure we'll find a way to modify those tired old fuselages 15 years from now to build that AH-1AA! LOL!

Of course ... everyone knows that the Cobra is a much better, much more reliable aircraft than the Apache!

It just doesn't have armor, right?

Onward to Baghdad!!!

Don't forget that the gun can be used as an auxilliary braking system. At full rate of fire, the GAU-8/A produces recoil equivalent to 9000 lbs of negative thrust. That is just short of the maximum thrust of one ot the A-10's engines.

"Do, or do not. There is no try."

thats a myth m8, check the forum for informaion about that

I have a fairly close association with the manufacturer of the USMC's attack helicopter and the Flight Test of the new Z-model (i.e. I work for them). We've often joked around about how the Z-model will be called the "Super-Duper Cobra." We actually have 3 Z-model aircraft in flight test at Pax River right now as well 2 Y-model Huey's. I'm sure we'll find a way to modify those tired old fuselages 15 years from now to build that AH-1AA! LOL!

Of course ... everyone knows that the Cobra is a much better, much more reliable aircraft than the Apache!-------------

ROFL. Yeah read good stuff on the new Snakes. In the Gulf War heard they ran about 4X better than the Apaches.

My form buddy is a retired Marine chopper pilot. Sent him an article on the Z model. It was his response of the next model.

Since this is Apache Vs Warthog. During Nam, Army ran some DCM with Snakes Vs A-4s. I knew one of the Snake pilots. He said they came down in our pit and we hosed them. Let them commit and then load the air up with lead. This was pure guns.

Jack


[/quote]

I think Iraqi Freedom answered that question to a T. I have heard that the Apache's performed terribly due to sand and mechanical problems. But go figure, with those rotors sand blasting they probably were down to bare metal when they got back. I think in a UK or US theater they would perform beautifully. But in the sand, it takes a hog!!

High On The Hog

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\"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8/A at your side, kid.\"--Hawg Solo

So glad we got a moron's opinion.

Gee, thanx Kurt.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

bla bla bla bla bla UCAV bla bla bla bla bla bla bla UCAV bla bla bla bla UCAV bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla UCAV bla bla bla bla bla UCAV bla bla bla bla bla bla UCAV bla bla bla bla bla bla UCAV bla bla bla bla UCAV.

guess what,........ there is no significant UCAV presence at this time. Have you invested money in a company designing a UCAV?

If you spent more time developing and supporting real worl opinions as you do quoting technical manuals and acronyms, people might just take you a little more seriously.

Until then, you are know as a TROLL!

"Do, or do not. There is no try."

There is no doubt that UCAV will exist and do exit--they are called tomahawks. But lets not delude ourselve into expecting more from them.

Delude?....Kurt?.....Fits.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, befuddle them with bullshit."

--Raven

"For democracy, a man would give his only begotten son."