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Does anyone know what the deadliest CH-53 accident was?

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -General George Patton

BR,
Someone check me but, it may have been the failed rescue attempt of the American hostages from Iran in '79. That accident involved at least, if I remember correctly, two MH-53's and one C-130. The MH-53 Pave Low was at first called the "Grave Low" by flight crews. It probably had alot to do with the use of first generation night vision equipment. You'll probably have to talk to someone like Tomcat Tweaker to get a Navy prospective. They've got alot more 53's than the Air Force so it would reason that the incidences or occurances would be greater.

Pilots without maintainers are just pedestrians with sunglasses and a cool jacket. - Anon

Mark i would think you have to be right on that one.

Lotta guys didn't make it out of there.

Trample the wounded- hurdle the dead.

yeah if your talking muliple airframes rather than 1 single accident I'd go with the "Desert One" tragedy <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>. Otherwise it might be the Germans or Japanese, as they have some as well and might tend to pack them in more, and then combine with whatever training they get.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Wait, I found something:

http://www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/S ... 4.7.3.html



The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -General George Patton

I had a friend of mine that Watched a CH53 Sea Stallion Crash on Final Approach right in front of his Infantry Company in Korea. He informed me that only 2 guys survived. THey were both Thrown clear of the impact. He said that the closer to the front you got The worse the Victims were Burnt. The pilots were Charcoal. Afterwords a month later they had Ch53's extract them out of the jungle in the Phillipines. A battalion sized brawl broke out and half his Battalion was eather in Subic Naval Hospital or the Brig. He told me this while i was Serving in a differnt Marine Reserve unit. I had transfered shortly before the deployment.

He was a little upset id give Recon up to go Fly Helos after College. He eventually got over his fear of death with Helos and has been awarded 2 Bronzes, a Silver and a handful of air medals as a Nco and Commisioned officer in Special Forces and Marine recon.

I never did Fly helos no matter how hard I pleaded, insulted and threatened.. I did get Broncos for 4 years and enjoyed my close relationship with Helo crews and Combat arms personal as a FAC. I later moved on to a great career as a Weasel and Flight Test Engineer.

1 day in the 1st CIV Airwing i'll seize that opportunity. My dream goal has always been to become a Airmedical or SAR Helo Pilot.

Some dreams are worth all the risks in the world. My friend was a great leader and inspiration for me to accept what i earned and to never give up the goal.

I hope BigRoss that these questions you have concerning Aviation Disasters doesnt steer you clear of Meeting your Goals in aviation.

P.S. Went on a 20 Min Helo Ride today, Older first gen Bell Jetranger. Was Great droping into little Fields and Popping back out over the treetops. I kept Begging him to do an Autorotation but he refused..LMAO He said i was pushing it to far allready for what he was doing. Gotta Love the Way money talks, and mine was saying BYE BYE!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>



"Your presence on WT is like an odor dude, you need to unleash.. -Brewski"

A little input from a "Pave" Driver. I was initial cadre in the Paves in Jan 1980 until I retired in 1990 and NEVER heard them referred to as a "Grave Low". The H-53s involved in the accident in the Iranian desert were all Navy birds flown by (mostly) Navy crews. The only Pave Lows involved in that mission were on C-5s enroute from Albuquerque to Dover to ? when the accident in the desert happened, which was April of 1980, btw. Pave crews were using 2nd generation NVGs from the very beginning and had 3rd gens before the end of 1980. Iterestingly, there were a lot of Army and Air Force helo crews involved in training for a second hostage rescue attempt from May '80 thru Dec '80. Thank God Reagan was elected.

BR,
Someone check me but, it may have been the failed rescue attempt of the American hostages from Iran in '79. That accident involved at least, if I remember correctly, two MH-53's and one C-130. The MH-53 Pave Low was at first called the "Grave Low" by flight crews. It probably had alot to do with the use of first generation night vision equipment. You'll probably have to talk to someone like Tomcat Tweaker to get a Navy prospective. They've got alot more 53's than the Air Force so it would reason that the incidences or occurances would be greater.

Pilots without maintainers are just pedestrians with sunglasses and a cool jacket. - Anon
[/quote]



Edited by - PaveTen on Mar 07 2003 11:45 PM

Edited by - PaveTen on Mar 07 2003 11:52 PM

Welcome Aboard PaveTen, Pull up a Chair and have a Beer on us.

Would love to talk helos with you some time! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

"<---Jesus Powers My Hotrod---<<<"

"My purpose in life does not include a hankering to charm society."

Welcome aboard.

We definitely have a shortage of rotorheads here.

"We shall leave no man behind"

Welcome aboard Pave Ten! Thanks for the skinny on Desert One. The "Grave Low" comment was first hand from a retired Gunner on 53's at Hurlburt. No offense meant. Much respect for Special Ops. Tried it (53 Flight Engineer Candidate)and decided I might live longer if I went to F-117 Flight Test. The wife was really glad about that too! At least I can say I've flown with no lights at 500 feet in a fog bank.

Welcome pave ten.......As far as I know ther botched Iranian/American Hostage rescue attempt was the worst.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

Actually, the loss during Desert One (the Iranian hostage rescue mission) was relatively low compared to what it could have been and Yes, it was tragic, but the final tally was five Air Force fatalities (on the MC-130) three Marine fatalities on the RH-53(Navy Helo) and five seriously wounded (don't know their affiliation). I think 'Bigross' may be on to something exploring the Israeli use of the 53, I think they did have a serious accident at one time which involved several crew and passengers.
And I apologize to the Marine crews, I was thinking the helos were flown mainly by Navy crews, but it was mainly Marines with a few Navy and one Air Force.

If the Wings don't swing - it won't fly!

We lost quite a few Delta Operators at Desert1 too PaveTen.

One of the little known facts of this Op is that there was a whole company of Airborne Rangers involved, and that they got into a company level firefight protecting the overland approaches to the Desert1 LZ.

It was a ridiculously complicated plan, and had very little chance of success.

"We shall leave no man behind"

[quote]
We lost quite a few Delta Operators at Desert1 too PaveTen.

--------------

My first post hope it works this time.

The Guts to Try, Col. Kyle is the only known book on Desert 1 and I will go from memory. No Delta operators were lost at Desert 1. They were 8 RH-53D, or the minesweeper choppers. Carter gave the military a blank check to run this operation. Navy lost an entire year in 53 training to support the Op with 53 parts.

IMO, it was a hose job from the start at the Pentagon. First chopper crews from the Marines were real plumbers and most of them were replaced. There was a never full up practice run. If you compare how they ran the Son Tay raid, which was conducted very well, and lots of practice. They planning and practice for Desert 1 wasn't that swift.

One of the major mistakes was not using Air Force SpecOps 53 drivers. We only lost 8 troops. It could had been far worse.

They went to plan B which was the Rocket Herc. It could land and taeoff in a soccer field.

IAF lost 55 odd souls in a 53 accident once. We probably lost many in Nam in 53s also. Can't recall a big one, except for the Mayaquez,sp incident in 75 when a Force 53 went down with 25 odd souls on board.

Out of the ashes at Desert 1, the 160th in the Army was formed. Best chopper drivers in the business.

Jack

yeah Desert ONE was a rough one... It bugs me how the beaurocrats took it so hard though.... accidents happen, its the fog of war.... go f'n figure.

"TACAIR, we deliver, you eat dust"

http://www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/S ... 4.7.3.html

<img src="http://www.iaf.org.il/english/images/diary/visuals/thumbnails/1997.jpg" border=0>

February 4th 1997:
The Helicopter Accident: 73 IDF fighters are killed when two CH-53 Yas'ur helicopters crash over She'ar Yashuv in northern Israel.

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -General George Patton

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Welcome pave ten.......As far as I know ther botched Iranian/American Hostage rescue attempt was the worst.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Theres an overview of that at the beginnning of Tom Clancy's & Carl Stiner's "Shadow Warriors". Just made it to the chapter devoted to the rescue attempt.

Read that the 53 hit the C-130 while someone inspecting the C-130 with a flashlight was trying to get away from the dust being kicked up, and the pilot thought he was being guided with the flashlight beam.

"Liberal bastards. I fart in thier general direction"

_________________

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
BR,
Someone check me but, it may have been the failed rescue attempt of the American hostages from Iran in '79. That accident involved at least, if I remember correctly, two MH-53's and one C-130. The MH-53 Pave Low was at first called the "Grave Low" by flight crews. It probably had alot to do with the use of first generation night vision equipment. You'll probably have to talk to someone like Tomcat Tweaker to get a Navy prospective. They've got alot more 53's than the Air Force so it would reason that the incidences or occurances would be greater.

Pilots without maintainers are just pedestrians with sunglasses and a cool jacket. - Anon
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
BR,
Someone check me but, it may have been the failed rescue attempt of the American hostages from Iran in '79. That accident involved at least, if I remember correctly, two MH-53's and one C-130. The MH-53 Pave Low was at first called the "Grave Low" by flight crews. It probably had alot to do with the use of first generation night vision equipment. You'll probably have to talk to someone like Tomcat Tweaker to get a Navy prospective. They've got alot more 53's than the Air Force so it would reason that the incidences or occurances would be greater.

Pilots without maintainers are just pedestrians with sunglasses and a cool jacket. - Anon
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

The H-53's that were used during the Iran Hostage Rescue were Marine RH-53's. Pave Low helicopters were assigned at the 1550th Air Training and Test Wing at Kirtland AFB, NM. under Air Rescue and Recovery. The night in question (Apr 24,1980), three Pave Low III (HH-53H) were in transit abord two C-5's, going to the mid-east as back-up when the word came down that a rescue attempt had failed. In May 1980, nine Pave Low HH-53H helicopters were moved to Hurlburt Field FL., under Special Operations. The nominclature MH-53 did not come about until much later. I know, I was there as a Initial Cadre Flight Enginer. Douglas Brown, MSgt, USAF, Retired.