Eurofighter, Gripen, Rafale.
I think that right now, today- the Gripen is probably in the best three active duty fighter aircraft in the world.
Of course, i was just a grunt....
"I Am Infantry...Follow Me!!!"
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| Author: | Freak [ 02 Apr 2003, 15:16 ] |
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I was wondering what this board thinks about the Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, A-400...and any other modern or next-generation European fighters, and how they compare to the American and Russian counterparts (if the russians manage to get one through lol). Freak |
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| Author: | MrMudd [ 02 Apr 2003, 16:37 ] |
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MAke Great Targets. Im a fan of the American Working man and the Fabulous machines and warfighting goodies they build. The French and the can burn in hell. We have been there for them thick and thin. As far as im concerned there is only 2 types of europeans. Those whose ass we kicked and those whose ass we saved. "<---Jesus Powers My Hotrod---<<<" "My purpose in life does not include a hankering to charm society." |
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| Author: | Freak [ 02 Apr 2003, 16:40 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> As far as im concerned there is only 2 types of europeans. Those whose ass we kicked and those whose ass we saved. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> What the heck is that supposed to mean? |
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| Author: | MrMudd [ 02 Apr 2003, 16:45 ] |
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Exactly what it means. Im Tired of fighting and defending there countries and so are most americans. The bullshit has got to stop with them. You cant stand beside us as we fight terrorism, then pack your shit and get the fuck out of the US! Stop begging for money, Stop attending our colleges. We toppled Hitler, We toppled the Soviet bear, we toppled the Serbian death Machine. In the end what kind of thanks have you given us. Our country has been there for europe thick and thin. In the end you snub your nose at us on the global war on terrorism. "<---Jesus Powers My Hotrod---<<<" "My purpose in life does not include a hankering to charm society." |
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| Author: | boomer [ 02 Apr 2003, 16:47 ] |
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I think the A-400 will be one of the WORST fighters ever!! LOL my ranking would be Gripen because of it's small size and datalink history of Sweden, then Europhoon for it's versatility, then Rafale cause it's the only one left from your list LOL. Overall I would rank: F/A-22 F-35 F-15 F-14 Gripen Europhoon SU-30 series (maybee) F-16/F/A-18 Rafale MiG-29 "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel ! <img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0> |
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| Author: | MrMudd [ 02 Apr 2003, 17:00 ] |
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Boomer after looking at your rateing you clearly dont know dick! "<---Jesus Powers My Hotrod---<<<" "My purpose in life does not include a hankering to charm society." |
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| Author: | 169th_Maul [ 02 Apr 2003, 17:03 ] |
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Boomer, how can you put the F/A18 so low on your list?!?!? You even put the F-14 above it? Top Gun must be your favorite movie. "The only time the French want us to go to war is when the German army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee." "The last time the French asked for more proof it came marching into Paris under the German flag." |
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| Author: | 169th_Maul [ 02 Apr 2003, 17:15 ] |
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As a matter of fact one of the carriers right now doesn't even have ANY F14s, replaced them all with shiny new SuperHornets. "The only time the French want us to go to war is when the German army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee." "The last time the French asked for more proof it came marching into Paris under the German flag." |
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| Author: | Freak [ 02 Apr 2003, 17:17 ] |
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LOL Mudd. I havn't done anyithing to you, neither have the rest of the germans...your comments arn't even worth any debate, as they reflect Hitler's and Saddams's mentality more than anything else. I would rank the newer version of the F-16/18 on one level with the Gripen, right under the eurofighter typhoon on your list. The F/A-18E/F even higher than the F-14. Freak |
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| Author: | Sparticus [ 02 Apr 2003, 17:29 ] |
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I....Sparticus would value MrMudd's opinion on airpower over most (if not all) of the opinions on this board. He's obviously had a gut full!!! "Insert trite message here" |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 02 Apr 2003, 17:39 ] |
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Eurofighter, Gripen, Rafale. I think that right now, today- the Gripen is probably in the best three active duty fighter aircraft in the world. Of course, i was just a grunt....
"I Am Infantry...Follow Me!!!" |
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| Author: | Wif [ 02 Apr 2003, 18:23 ] |
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I have to say that I like the A-10 myself....love to see how fast those Iraqi's run when they see one of those bad boys comin'!!! Sorry, have to agree with Mudd on the euro things guys. We have lost too many people to help Europe out of their hell-holes that the Nazi's drove them in. Hell one of my uncles left Germany and joined the Americans to battle it out. European's need to be grateful that they are not saying "Hail Hitler!!" today. Instructors do it best! "Wif" |
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| Author: | Freak [ 02 Apr 2003, 19:41 ] |
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"You cant stand beside us as we fight terrorism, then pack your shit and get the fuck out of the US! Stop begging for money, Stop attending our colleges." well...on some point you are right, and i have to appologize i was rude on name calling... But i feel peronaly attacked! Why should I leave the US, because i have another opinion?! Why should I stop to attend highschool here? Why should my dad give up his working place, if he wasasked to work here for an international company? Because we are German?! Come on!! That's sick. I said it before on a different topic: If you are judging someone for an opinion, you are not any better than Saddam!! I'm not harming anyone, in fact i think this war might be more harful to the US than it does good. Read my other posts on this debate if you want...but stop with your ignorance! Freak |
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| Author: | boomer [ 02 Apr 2003, 23:54 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>you clearly dont know dick! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> yeah definately NOT something I study! but getting back to the planes, LOL, I'm considering the whole fight from BVR to the merge to the furball. I guess the 22 and 35 are obvious so I wont comment on them. I put the 14 so high because of the Phoenix but below the F-15 because I feel the Eagle is superior when in closer. If I moved Gripen anywhere it would be above 15, but I suspect 15 still has superior systems ( but maybee not). I dont really feel 16/18 do long range engagements so they get a demerit. If it was just furball I would rank them Gripen 16 and 18 dead even at the top, IF it was at a lower alt, if it was high up then the Hornet would have to excuse itself and Gripen would be in trouble since it is also slightly underpowered (same motor as Hornet). Would welcome any ACTUALL arguments pro or con and would GREATLY appreciate any stats to back them up. Being corrected only makes me stronger , muahahaha !! MUAHAHAHA!! <font size=5>MUAHAHAHA!!</font id=size5> cough! cough! "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel ! <img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0> |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 03 Apr 2003, 05:31 ] |
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Euro-Ranking: 1. Gripen 2. Eurofighter 3. A-400 with armed co-pilot 4. Rafale it just takes too long to develop this Eurofighter. i remember it once started as a "Jäger 90"-project": they planned to use it as a substitute for the German Airforce F-4´s in the 90´s. Of course it is not easy to develop a complex fighter-plane involving 3 nations, industries, governments.... and that IS the huge problem with the eurofighter. The best decision in the late 80´s would have been to buy the F-18 (like switzerland did), or even better buy the A10! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> To MrMudd I can understand your bitterness. But you can be sure that not every german or even french shares our government´s view of the war against iraq. Throwing all germans out of USA? -- I think you´re going way too far here. I am sure all this will have an impact on the german economy. Americans still will buy BMW, Porsche, Mercedes...? Today i read a letter to the editor in the newspaper. I think it´s a good point, i´m trying to translate a bit: "...Saddam Hussein played the world for a sucker for 12 years, and in this time he killed more people than where killed in the Gulf-War... But to be against the USA like our self-important actor (Federal-Chancellor) Schröder, could cost us 3 million more unemployed, because there is one thing the americans have, what our politicians don´t have: patriotism." |
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| Author: | Horrido [ 04 Apr 2003, 01:25 ] |
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I prefer the term "Euro-weenies," actually. Eurofighter is the best fighter the early-1980s never saw! It's not so much asking ALL of them to leave, just those that expect US hand-outs and priveleges and then attack/criticize us in the same breath. They can instead enjoy the life and opportunities of their homelands with obviously superior judgment, systems, and philosophies... Regarding the asses-kicked vs. asses-saved question, a simple breakdown: Germany and Italy fall under the "asses kicked" category; "asses saved" are everyone else occupied or attacked by those two nations, notably England, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Lichtenstein, Greece...did I miss anyone else where US ground forces were involved that would be speaking German and be without a Jewish population had we not intervened in Europe? Or would you, perhaps, prefer a more Stalinist regime in place, as that would be your ONLY other option?... A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down... |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 04 Apr 2003, 02:43 ] |
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Freak, just so you know, Mudd was a USAF fighter pilot, and like many fighter pilots, he likes to ruffle feathers, lol... "US Army Snipers- One shot, one kill" |
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| Author: | 2drezq [ 04 Apr 2003, 10:10 ] |
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The ass-kicked/ass-saved arguement misses a critical point; We may have gone to war because we were attacked, We may have gone to war for humanitarian reasons (something lefties can't comprehend), it was more than countries, or even civilian populations we were saving. What the United States did in WWII was nothing less than save western civilization. A failure to defeat Hitler before we found ourselves standing alone, could have resulted in a conflict so horrific, an engagement so total in nature, that little would have been left to salvage. Even if utter collapse was avoided, and we emerged the victor, rebuilding after such a war would have taken a generation, not just a decade. By "saving" europe, we saved ourselves and our collective future, and salvaged a proud and noble people from ruin. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Had the war lasted a little longer, we might have seen the P-80 engage the ME-262 in combat. Now THAT would have been interesting! "The First Rule in a Gunfight: Have a gun. If you violate this rule, no other rules apply" Jeff Cooper |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 04 Apr 2003, 10:28 ] |
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[quote] Eurofighter is the best fighter the early-1980s never saw! [quote] you´re absolutely right here!!! But, so what, we had the F-104 in the early 1980s....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
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| Author: | 2drezq [ 06 Apr 2003, 19:54 ] |
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Geee...A friend (who knows much more than I do!) once said that the F-104 was the most capable static display fighter ever built! (I think they are beautiful, where can I get one for my front lawn?) "The First Rule in a Gunfight: Have a gun. If you violate this rule, no other rules apply" Jeff Cooper |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 07 Apr 2003, 01:20 ] |
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In Germany the F-104 was known as the "widow-maker". Over 250 crashed, with over 100 pilots killed. A famous joke in the 70´s was: "How do you get a starfighter (f-104)? Just buy a plot of land, and wait till one falls on it." No, we weren´t at war, these were just accidents. Be careful when you put it on your lawn, the wings are sharp you can cut yourself. "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | Horrido [ 08 Apr 2003, 00:36 ] |
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The original lawndart? A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down... |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 08 Apr 2003, 10:53 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> The original lawndart? A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> when i started to join this forum i didn´t even know the word "lawndart" <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> and yes, now i think the f104 might qualify as "the original lawndart".<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> i´m learning from you guys i think... "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | ellie [ 18 Jun 2003, 15:34 ] |
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quote _________ Those whose ass we kicked and those whose ass we saved ________ i think you need to check your history . As a brit, i know our country stood alone for months against the nazis. The american help, when it came, was vital and was appreciated. However to blithely suggest that america saved everyones ass is not accurate. We could easily have accepted hitlers peace offer, and remained neutral. to answer the question id say F-22 Eurofighter (im not a fan of this plane though) Rafale |
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| Author: | prkiii [ 18 Jun 2003, 15:40 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> quote i think you need to check your history . As a brit, i know our country stood alone for months against the nazis. The american help, when it came, was vital and was appreciated. However to blithely suggest that america saved everyones ass is not accurate. We could easily have accepted hitlers peace offer, and remained neutral. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> One never knows what would have happened if this didn't or that did...but I don't think the England would have been able to take Germany on by itself...the war was won by working together...Do you think, if "you had accepted hitlers peace offer, and remained neutral" he wouldn't have attached eventually? If I remember correctly he signed something along the same lines with the Soviets, and he attached them.... Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood moderator... If you can't go fast...go Ugly |
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