No, no....my jet is the A-10
"US Army Snipers- One shot, one kill"
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| MiG-29 a flying hoax? http://www.warthogterritory.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2935 |
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| Author: | troung [ 07 Apr 2003, 16:19 ] |
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The MiG-29 is always written up as a super fighter in the west. It record does not show it as even close. The MiG-29 has almost always gone up against any opposition. The Iran Iraq war was the first time it flew into combat, and it failed to even lock onto the F-4Es of the IRIAF. It was next used in Desert Storm when they were mauled by AIM-7F/M armed F-15Cs. In theory that was a much more fair fight then the Kosovo conflict or while the USAF was enforcing the no fly zone over Iraq when AIM-120 armed F-15/16s blew them away with no loss. Infact in these battles the MiG-29s never even fired back, so it has not even a AIM-120 v R-27R/T thing, the MiG-29s never knew anyone was up there. The most even fight they had was when Eritrean MiG-29As fought Ethiopian Su-27SKs, both planes carried the same weapons (R-27R and R-73) but the Su-27s killed 4-5 MiG-29s with no loss. The MiG-29s were never able to target the bomb laden MiG-23BNs the Su-27s were escorting. The MiG-29 possibly made a hand full of kills on South Yemenese Mig-29s during that countries long civil war, but by the end of that conflict very few MiG-29s could fly. Moldavia saw MiG-29 vs. Mig-29 combat with no confirmed results. I’m leaving out the better models like the MiG-29S/N/SMT/M, which have seen almost no combat. During the 1999 Kargil conflict an InAF MiG-29S locked unto 2 PAF F-16A/B Block 15s. The F-16s fled, because they had nothing to shot back with anyway. The MiG-29S was used in Moldavia during the early 1990s for air to air and air to ground, the Russians claim 4 kills. The MiG-29 would never have been even built for the USA, it has a short range, poor payload and very poor avionics. Even the upgraded MiG-29S/N falls short of the F-16 and F/A-18 in performance, and the MiG-29SMT/M/K might never enter operational service. Germany, which got 24 MiG-29A/UBs, ditched them a couple years ago, due to their lack of ability even when compared to the F-4F. The Iranian’s who have anywhere from 30-36 MiG-29A/UBs are highly dissatisfied with the planes poor avionics, range, payload and weapon systems even when compared to the F-4D/E Phantom. The have fit the R-73 onto their F-4D/Es. The only thing that is nice about the plane is its turning ability, even though the Mirage 2000C/E/5/9 will easily outturn the MiG at high altitudes. The MiG-29 would probably do better if it was used as built, a GCI guided interceptor built to operate from forward bases. Pros on early MiG-29A/S/UBs (no fancy upgrades) R-73 Close combat at low levels Cons on MiG-29A/S/UBs (no fancy upgrades) Poor range Crappy payload Shitty avionics Maintenance intensive Poor sortie rate |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 07 Apr 2003, 17:01 ] |
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German MIG 29 are still flying, but supposed to be replaced by the "Eurofighter" (Eurotrash...) Something i found on the net: General Dynamics concluded in 1992 in their F-16/MiG-29 comparison: Performance - Good Aerodynamics - But Compromised by Construction - Inferior to F-16 Supersonically, Parity at Subsonic Speeds, Slight Superiority at Very Slow Speeds Flight Controls - Manual System Limits Use of Full Capabilities But Allows for Superior Pilot Individualized Capabilities Cockpit - Head-Down Concept and Poor PVI Integration Decreases Effectiveness Avionics - Look-Down, Shoot-Down Radar. Flexibility, Modes Limited by Controls & Displays - State-of-the-Art INS - Radar Warning Receiver - Low Technology But Good Coverage - HUD: Limited Capability - Augmented by Helmet Mounted Sight - IRST: A-A, Slavable to Radar and Helmet Mounted Sight - Helmet-Mounted Sight System - Slow, Yet Capable - Further Advancements Expected With Appearance of New MiG-29 Versions Lot's of "buts", don't you think;)? Luftwaffe MiG-29s flew on several ocations against Falcons. One such experience described by a USAF pilot in Aviano Vigileer's article which might give you some idea about how it went. http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/Buzzards.html "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | troung [ 07 Apr 2003, 18:16 ] |
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Poland has the German MiG-29s. |
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| Author: | inkjet [ 08 Apr 2003, 02:21 ] |
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I promise Germany still has MiG-29s. We fight them in the A-10 several times a year. They will eventually go to Poland, but for now they are firmly planted at Laage. |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 08 Apr 2003, 11:16 ] |
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troung and inkjet, you´re both right. Jagdgeschwader 73 Steinhoff still got the MiG29G /GT. (originally 24 out of the NVA, 1 crashed = 23 left) But they´re already sold to Poland for a price of 1€. No joke!! They will be used by the German Luftwaffe until the Eurochicken is ready to fly. (2004) More: http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 08 Apr 2003, 12:12 ] |
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I can remember Mudd telling me more than once that the Mig-29 is a worthy opponent. Perhaps he will care to opine on the matter once more. "US Army Snipers- One shot, one kill" |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 08 Apr 2003, 12:33 ] |
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Sniper, that´s your jet: <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> MiG-29 „Sniper“ This is the modernization variant of the Romanian MiG-29 B by a cooperation of DASA, Elbit (Israel) and Aerostar (Romania). It includes a lifetime program, a new digital mission computer, a standart 1553B MIL bus, western avionics with MFD and a modern HUD. Also incooperated are a radar warning receiver, air data computer, a new navigation system with integrated GPS, Laser INS and an efficient HOTAS system. This reveals an enormous growth potential and the integration of western weapons besides increased fight value to the Romanian MiG 29. "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 08 Apr 2003, 14:24 ] |
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No, no....my jet is the A-10
"US Army Snipers- One shot, one kill" |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 09 Apr 2003, 12:11 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> No, no....my jet is the A-10
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> just a thought. the mig 29 is pretty cheap: 23 migs for just 1 Euro. Perhaps you have to be from Poland to get such a good price... "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | troung [ 09 Apr 2003, 16:38 ] |
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"Friend ship" price. I think they bought it as part of a package which included tanks. The MiG-29A/UB sells for aout 8-12 million. |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 09 Apr 2003, 17:12 ] |
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Mig 29´s, tanks???? With these new weapons, Poland´s gonna invade us soon <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>, AND France <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Guess US won´t help us then! "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | Robal2pl [ 14 Apr 2003, 02:11 ] |
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Hmmm...I'm from Poland and I can say that Poland will get 23 Germans Mig-29's but they 'll be used as a 2nd line of air defence, also as a "trainers" for our fighter pilots...Poland is going to buy 48 F-16C from US... |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 14 Apr 2003, 03:40 ] |
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Robal, looks like your country´s got the air superiority in Europe then... <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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| Author: | boomer [ 14 Apr 2003, 22:27 ] |
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wanted to post this link quite some time ago but couldent find it again LOL http://vnfa2.tripod.com/Fulcrum_Falcon.html "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel ! <img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0> |
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| Author: | Robal2pl [ 15 Apr 2003, 01:57 ] |
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Hmmm....IMHO, MiG-29 is very dangerous in "dogfight" with R-73s - but if fighter like F-15C will launch AIM-7M or AIM-120 - MiG is dead...also another problem is lack of air-to-ground weapons (only bombs and 80-mm rockets) - problem solved in MiG-29M... |
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| Author: | Homer32 [ 15 Apr 2003, 15:01 ] |
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Good deal for Poland in my opinion. The other Europeans might be a little bit p....d off. No sales on Gripen, Rafale, Eurochicken. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I think there also will be a transfer of US-Forces from Germany to Poland sooner or later. "The internet? Is that thing still around?" -Homer, The Simpsons |
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