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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 07:59 
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Just wondering what is going to happen when the first one of these planes crashes, or prove to be too big for existing infrastructure?

Airbus unveils its superjumbo, European leaders hail lead over US
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Airbus unveiled its A380 superjumbo in a glitzy ceremony at which the leaders of France, Britain, Germany and Spain hailed Europe's victory over the United States as the new king of the commercial skies.

The huge new aircraft, which can carry up to 840 people on its two full decks, supersedes the ageing 747 by US rival Boeing as the biggest passenger aircraft ever made.

When it starts flying commercially early next year, it will become the flagship of many airline fleets and offer unprecedented amenities on long-haul services, including, in some cases, gyms, bedrooms and bars.

For the countries which backed the 10.7-billion-euro (14-billion-dollar) development cost, the plane also stands as a prominent symbol of European cooperation.

"Good old Europe has made this possible," German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder told a packed hall in Airbus's headquarters in Toulouse, southwest France.

That was a barely-veiled barb recalling the US dismissal of France, Germany and other EU states as "Old Europe" because of their opposition to the war on Iraq.

Noel Forgeard, the French head of Airbus, made similar hints in his presentation of the A380 during a spectacle marked by computer graphics, atmospheric theme music and swirling colours.

"In this great aircraft, there is a mixture of determination and of dreams, which is, and always has been, at the heart of the wealth and splendid complexity of our European culture," he said.

"The European states -- so easily accused of weakness -- backed this fantastic challenge 35 years ago and have believed in the A380," he said.

The hubris on display was reinforced by recent figures showing that, for the second year running, Airbus has outsold Boeing and now holds some 57 percent of the world market for passenger aircraft.

The company, a majority owned subsidiary of the listed European Aerospace and Defence Company (with 20 percent in the hands of Britain's BAE Systems), forecasts that the A380 will extend that lead.

Thirteen airlines have already placed firm orders for 139 of the planes. Airbus calculates that by 2008 it will reach the break-even point of 250 A380s sold, and from that point it will turn out 35 of the aircraft per year.

The catalogue price of the huge machine -- wingspan of 80 metres (262 feet), overall length of 73 metres (239 feet), height of 24 metres (79 feet) and maximum take-off weight of 560 tonnes -- is between 263 and 286 million dollars, though discounts are frequently applied.

French President Jacques Chirac called the project a "big success" and said: "We can, and we must, go further on this path of European construction so essential for growth and employment."

British Prime Minister Tony Blair said the plane was "the culmination of many years of hard work" and congratulated the workers across Europe who made it happen.

Airline executives at the presentation were superlative in their praise, even though the A380 has yet to undergo test flights scheduled for March or April.

Richard Branson, the head of Britain's Virgin Atlantic, said his airline would pamper passengers on the six A380s ordered by including gyms, beauty parlours, bars -- and even casinos and double beds.

"So alongside our casinos, you'll have at least two ways to get lucky on our flights," Branson joked.

The biggest buyer of the new plane is the Emirates airline, which has ordered 43 because, "the A380 will be the future of air travel," its chairman, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, said.

Airbus's success with the A380 has raised hackles at Boeing, which has had relatively little interest in its own new offering, a long-range mid-size plane called the 7E7 Dreamliner.

A bruising challenge and counter-challenge over state subsidies for Boeing and Airbus was headed to the World Trade Organisation until both sides decided to see if three months of negotiations could resolve the dispute.


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 08:25 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Just wondering what is going to happen when the first one of these planes crashes, or prove to be too big for existing infrastructure?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Airbus says 50 airports are already making renovations to accomidate the new plane....not saying it'll work out, but who knows....

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>


Edited by - prkiii on Jan 18 2005 07:27 AM

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 09:28 
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800+ at a pop...a terrorist's dream come true or an NSTB nightmare. This also assumes prices are low enough to fill them. Hate to be the first guy to board or the last one to get off! "Yes sir, flight time will be 2hrs, 35 minutes. You should plan for security, boarding and deplaning times of 1 hour...each." Like getting out of Indy at the end of the race.<img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

So, you have trouble. We all have trouble. Build a bridge and get over it.

Edited by - 30mike-mike on Jan 18 2005 09:59 AM

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 10:43 
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I guess that they have to gloat when they get the opportunity......(they seldom get that chance).<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 11:40 
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Does anyone else think that airliners with capacities larger than, say, 500, take too long to load and unload thereby adding 2 more hours to an already excruciating ordeal.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 11:49 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>So alongside our casinos, you'll have at least two ways to get lucky on our flights," Branson joked.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Maybe they will have an official "Mile High Club". It would sweeten the deal if there was a frequent flyer miles bonus for employing airline staff to personally confirm your qualifications for the club.

THE RAMPTOR ENGINEERING TEAM <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 11:50 
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Yes. See above. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

So, you have trouble. We all have trouble. Build a bridge and get over it.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 11:50 
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Even airliners with a capacity of 100 take to long to board by the time folks pack all their crap in the overhead bins.

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 12:23 
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Right, and then the poor schmuck who is last to board has to have his only carry-on tagged and sent below. Then he can spend the whole trip hoping it made it on his flight. Generally speaking, flying has become a major PITA. (IMHO, of course.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)

So, you have trouble. We all have trouble. Build a bridge and get over it.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 12:58 
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The EU will slap each othe on the back until the first A380 hits a mountain top and 840 folks plus the crew all die. Sometimes bigger isnt always better.

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 13:18 
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I think it would make one hell of a good trash hauler though....

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 15:27 
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did airbus ever fix that problem with their autopilots... you know the one that would make sudden unscheduled landings that the pilots apparently coulnd't override...

" At least God has a sense of humor about the end of the world. Dr. Atkins died. Slipped, hit his head, got brain damage, died on life support. The man that invented the all meat diet...died a vegetable."
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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2005, 16:30 
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stress I just can not see this thing as being cheaper to operate, what are your thoughts.


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2005, 06:38 
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Only way to make it cheaper is to fill it full, which means fewer flights to wherever it is you want to go so that can happen. May be good for business, but lousy for the business traveller!

So, you have trouble. We all have trouble. Build a bridge and get over it.

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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2005, 15:16 
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Well if its full of "Good Old Europeans" when it hits the mountian it might not be a bad thing...

The fact is, I cant see the Airlines getting funding to buy these aircraft... The annuals were all released this week and every airline, except Southwest, posted huge losses...

I also understand that the FAA may deny access to the US for these aircraft, since no airports have the infrastructure to support them, and the potential threat they present due to their explosive fuel loads...


CAG out...









Edited by - CAG Hotshot on Jan 21 2005 2:19 PM


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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2005, 17:03 
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so boeing has friends in the faa. could you imagin the bankrupcy if Air bus can not sell enough of these things lol.


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PostPosted: 24 Jan 2005, 14:52 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The fact is, I cant see the Airlines getting funding to buy these aircraft... The annuals were all released this week and every airline, except Southwest, posted huge losses...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>


I think that no airlines make money. They just go through "bilk the investor" cycles where suckers...er, savvy investors inject new capital, re-organize and proceed to spend the new money until it is gone. Then the cycle repeats itself ad nauseum. Government subsidized airlines really can work it. The taxpayers are an infinite source of capital to spend. I hope those airlines buy many A-380s and suck the governments dry.



THE RAMPTOR ENGINEERING TEAM <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2005, 23:54 
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Aircraft finance looks ahead... (Janes Defense)

With more banks looking at deals, this year could fulfil the promise of recovery that is filtering through finance circles - the US excluded.

Banks that have taken a back seat in recent years, such as some of the German finance houses, are once more dipping their toes in the water and participating in deals. At the same time, new-entrant Chinese banks are progressively playing a greater role in financing aircraft; and not just for carriers in Asia.

China Construction Bank exemplifies the increasing role of Chinese banks in aircraft finance, having completed the debt element of a Japanese operating lease (JOL) for an Emirates A340-500 delivery in December 2004. The debt was co-arranged by Bank of Tokyo/Mitsubishi.

The Chinese banks - mainly the overseas branch offices of Bank of China and China Construction Bank - are demonstrating a willingness to build up their books with large dollar-denominated assets. They certainly have the funds that many Western banks are not making available for aircraft deliveries.

Aerospace bankers conclude that the weak state of the airline industry in the US, married to the daily bombardment of doom in the media, is deterring European banks from changing their attitudes. There is no keeping the headlines from bank bosses.

While the US market is still largely in intensive care, the airline industry in other parts of the world is faring differently.

"I've been trying to convince my bank's credit committee that some airlines in Europe and even more in the Asia-Pacific region are attractive credits," says one senior European banker. "But I continually have to explain what's happening in the US."

However, media headlines are not deterring some transport finance departments from lending to US airlines. While carriers like Southwest and JetBlue continue to attract banks (and capital markets in the case of the latter), other carriers such as AirTran (with B-737NG deliveries) are attracting long-term debt funding.

To say that in the primary markets it will be business as usual in 2005 would be a comforting concept for some lenders. However, if that relationship is based on 2004, the long-awaited industry-wide recovery may not appear on the horizon this year

CAG out...


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