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Sunday, 13 March , 2005, 09:23
New Delhi: India will start receiving the first carrier-based MiG-29K multi-role fighters from Russia in 2007, a year ahead of schedule.

The first batch of few MiG-29KUB would be delivered towards the middle of 2007, in time for Indian Navy to train the first batch of its pilots, a top official of Russian Aircraft building Corporation (RSK), the manufacturers of the MiG range of fighters, said.

He said that RSK would deliver Navy’s entire order of 16 MiG-29K by 2009.

The Russian team is in New Delhi to finalise the training schedule for the Indian Naval pilots.

While the first batch of naval pilots would be trained in Russia, India is subsequently planning to operate the MiG-29K for training purposes from its shore-based Dabolim airbase in Goa.

Under a Rs 3,256-crore deal, signed in January, 2004, Navy is to acquire 12 MiG-29k single seater combat aircraft and four two-seater MiG-29KUB operational trainers.

The deal includes airborne armaments, maintenance, personnel training, plus the supply of simulators, spare parts and servicing.

"RickUSN-

That was intelligent and useful Mudd.

But it certainly is what Ive come to expect.

Mindless babbling with no intent to either enlighten or inform.

and the question is, will they start falling out of the sky as rapidly as thier MiG-21s.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
and the question is, will they start falling out of the sky as rapidly as thier MiG-21s.
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The MiG-21 is notorious for its flame outs. Hav'nt seen that with the Mig-29 at least. So the answer is no, they will not fall out of the sky.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
The IAF has been flying MIG-29s since 1986.
The Mig-21 is a highly unstable aircraft and high pilot skills are required for it. The IAF had faltered due to poor pilot training and hence suffered many fatalities. Out of the 79% of accidents (IAF) are fighter related 41% attributed to pilot error and 44% to technical defects.
Even the Mig-23 suffered from these flame outs and hence they have been phased out. Inducted in the early '80s and retired in 2001.



Edited by - lemontree on Mar 16 2005 10:07 PM

A big part of the reason the IAF crashes so many planes is because they train very realisticly.

They're embroiled in their own mini cold war over there.

<b>"You got me all wrong Mudd...i don't like anyone.</b><img src=newicons/saevil.gif border=0 align=middle>"
<img src="http://worldaffairsboard.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=862&stc=1" border=0>

Sniper,
The main problem has been the lack of an AJT. Which is been addressed now by inducting the AJT HAwks from UK, and own home made AJT. Since The MIG-21 was the mainstay of the IAF, the rooky pilots jumped from the Kiran jet trainers to Mig-21s, with the following differences:-
- Kirans trainers are very stable ac, and their landing speed is around 170 kmph and take off speed of 180 kmph.
- Mig-21 are very unstable, their landing speed is close to 280-300 kmph and take off speed of 350 kmph.
This sudden jump in speed is what causes most pilot errors apart from the flame outs in the old Migs.

HAving flown two Differnt Blocks/avionics of -29's

I have to agree with that sentiment. The primary limitations to flight control rates are only related to Hungstores in G Loading. Get a Mig-29 below the Curve and it is not forgiving. Most Consumer of eastern block hardware do not have adequate Training support. Typically the Russians would Train Less than 2 Pilots and those 2 Pilots would be responsible for training the Consumers Pilots with an Advisor. Powerplants have always been a prime Problem with Eastern legacy aircraft.

Aerodynamics wise the -29 is quite capable if fitted with a reliable Turbine.

...Of course weve had our teething issues as well in the 15A's and 16's

"RickUSN-

That was intelligent and useful Mudd.

But it certainly is what Ive come to expect.

Mindless babbling with no intent to either enlighten or inform.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
A big part of the reason the IAF crashes so many planes is because they train very realisticly.

They're embroiled in their own mini cold war over there.

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Talked about a year ago to a German AF safety investigator that had worked an F-4 midair in New Mexico. His take? "It's the cost of business." And he's completely correct. The USAF needs to realize this in a sense too. Instead, we get down days, retraining, new regs, new restrictions, etc, etc. Granted, there is a place for these as needed, but with the USAF, they tend to be more of a knee-jerk reaction so the leadership can say that "something is being done" following an accident. IMO, the USAF needs to adopt more of the "cost of doing business" philisophy, because this business is no easy street.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Most Consumer of eastern block hardware do not have adequate Training support. Typically the Russians would Train Less than 2 Pilots and those 2 Pilots would be responsible for training the Consumers Pilots with an Advisor. Powerplants have always been a prime Problem with Eastern legacy aircraft.
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Sir,
That is quite true, however but with the IAF when they inducted a new fighter stream from Russian/France or UK, the whole squadron would get their pre-induction training from the seller country, along with the engineers. India when buying new ac generally go in for technology transfer so that HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd), starts manufacturing the ac at home.
The Mig-21 crashes started when the airframes/power plants started getting old coupled with questionable quality spare parts obtained from Ukrain and other CIS countries and not from Mikoyan the original manufacturers.
When I was in school, my classmates father managed to land a flamed out MiG-21 (during landing approach), he landed much before the runway started. He did'nt want to eject as there was a town ship close up. But he managed it since he had about 18 yrs of fighter experience on both eastern and western fighter streams, and had been a test pilot too. He was commanding a fighter squadon at that time.



Edited by - lemontree on Mar 18 2005 10:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>But he managed it since he had about 18 yrs of fighter experience on both eastern and western fighter streams, and had been a test pilot too. He was commanding a fighter squadon at that time. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That Shit Gives me Wood.... But keep that a Secret, would hate for the wifey to find out, she would put my ass back to work <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

"RickUSN-

That was intelligent and useful Mudd.

But it certainly is what Ive come to expect.

Mindless babbling with no intent to either enlighten or inform.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>But he managed it since he had about 18 yrs of fighter experience on both eastern and western fighter streams, and had been a test pilot too. He was commanding a fighter squadon at that time. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That Shit Gives me Wood.... But keep that a Secret, would hate for the wifey to find out, she would put my ass back to work <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Lol...I'm sure you would make an excellent CO, sir. (if you already hav'nt commanded a sqn).

Not an operational Squadron in the ACC, Purely Commands related to Project Offices and Test Groups. IF I wanted to be a Operational Commander, I should of never stepped foot in an Engineering Course in College. OF course NO whipper knows that at that age, and I have no regrets. I wanted Helicopters, they gave me jets <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"RickUSN-

That was intelligent and useful Mudd.

But it certainly is what Ive come to expect.

Mindless babbling with no intent to either enlighten or inform.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I wanted Helicopters, they gave me jets <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
You got my dream job sir. In school my Math was horrible hence, I could'nt even dream of passing the entrance test for Air Force Academy. That is why I chose the next best thing that gets adrenalin pumping.

I career tracked into Flight Test, Just the way things turned out.

"RickUSN-

That was intelligent and useful Mudd.

But it certainly is what Ive come to expect.

Mindless babbling with no intent to either enlighten or inform.