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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2005, 05:18 
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We've got 6 langly F-22s here as part of the unit becoming IOC (first deployment). Man I remember when I first saw the "new" F-15 and F-16 back in the day.

Saw them coming home after a sortie last night right at sun-set, very pretty sight...

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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2005, 05:42 
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I heard it Dice-Man about the first deployment of the Raptor http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012142
It is next generation time, after the Eagle now the Raptor. And you know what is still going strong........yes your right the Warthog <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Back in 1998 I saw in those days the only two F-22 in test-fase. Now is number 50 deliverd.

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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2005, 08:51 
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<i>So Dice-man, here is another article by that guy that must be a (distant) relative.</i>

<b>Pilots Say Raptor Provides Advantage</b> (Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2005)
BY: <b>Jim Hodges</b>, Newport News (Va.) Daily Press
10/18/2005

LAYTON, UTAH -- Bill Creeden remembers his first flight in an F-15 Eagle.

"The plane was older than I was," said Creeden, now a 27-year-old Air Force captain from Manassas. "But I thought, 'Hey this is training, so I shouldn't be surprised.' "

Then he got to Langley Air Force Base.

"When I got here, the plane was older than I was, too," Creeden said.

No more. He's flying the F/A-22 Raptor in two weeks of exercises that begin today at Hill Air Force Base. To him, it's like driving an expensive car he just bought.

"It looks, smells, feels new," said Creeden, who picked up 4.7 hours - pilots count their experience in six-minute increments - in the Raptor on Saturday, flying it from Langley to Hill.

That's one reason he's excited about flying the Air Force's new fighter.

Maj. Chuck Corcoran has another, gleaned from sitting in the back seat of a Russian Su-27 on an exchange visit.

"It was eye-opening," he said. "What was really eye-opening was how they go about training their pilots. They're getting more and more experienced."

That means they're getting better, and Corcoran isn't into jousting. With foreign technology catching up to the Air Force's staple, the F-15, he doesn't want to go against a well-trained pilot in equal equipment.

"If I can blow up a threat before he knows I'm there, that's what I want," said Corcoran, who is plainly enamored with the Raptor's stealth capability, both against other planes and surface-to-air missiles that are getting increasingly sophisticated.

"This plane can go places that an aluminum plane just can't. With the F-15, we'll probably both get a shot."

The last thing a pilot wants is to be a flying target in a gun - or missile - fight.

It's why Corcoran is in love with the Raptor.

Jim Hecker's reason is mathematical and goes to an exercise two years ago in which F-15 pilots fought Russian MiG-29s flown by Indian pilots.

"We were trading plane-for-plane," said Hecker, a lieutenant colonel who commands Langley's 27th Fighter Squadron, the first unit to fly the Raptor.

He admitted that it scared him, because the last thing a pilot wants is competition in the sky.

Later, he flew F-15s against Su-27s in an exercise in Malaysia. The American planes made out better that time, but not better enough.

"We want to win every fight 59-0," Hecker said.

He figures he can pitch a shutout every time with a Raptor.

Ask any of them about federal budget cutbacks that reduce the number of F/A-22s the Air Force can buy to 179 and you get the same answer. They admit that it's the company line.

"The Air Force says it needs 381 to perform its mission," Corcoran said. "I've heard it over and over again."

Even though it's getting harder to find the parts necessary to keep the F-15s in the air, their use probably will be extended as long as possible because fewer Raptors are being bought.

Fewer F/A-22s mean "we'll just be busier," Hecker said. "There will be more for us to do."

So how many are enough, without the company line?

"You'll know 40 years from now," said Capt. Shawn, a Raptor instructor who is in town to see if there's anything else he should be teaching the pilots.

He laughed and added, "Everybody will be sitting around the table and asking each other, 'Did we have enough Raptors?' "


It ain't the heat it's the humility.

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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2005, 14:11 
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<b>Despite glitch, F/A-22 begins first practice deployment:</b> The U.S. Air Force began its first practice deployment of the Lockheed Martin F/A-22 Raptor over the weekend, but a technical glitch left it without its full complement of eight jets. Raptor 41, which safely returned to Langley, was accompanied back to the base by a second F/A-22 as a precaution. The other six jets completed the trip to Hill. Maintainers have seen the malfunction before and are confident they can fix it quickly so the pair still at Langley can fly to Hill, said Lt. Elizabeth Kreft, a spokeswoman for Langley's 1st Fighter Wing, who added that such glitches are to be expected for a new aircraft. "This is a normal situation. We don't consider it a setback at all." (Aerospace Daily & Defense Report)



It ain't the heat it's the humility.

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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2005, 05:30 
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Here’s a couple of pics I took of the F-22s through the fence. One I took through the fence and the other I stuck the camera lens through one of the holes and zoomed as much as I could. I had a very interesting experience yesterday, I was walking down the flight line when I heard a strange noise but one I knew. When I turned around I saw a Phantom (F-4E) coming down the runway. As it passed I could see it was still painted in the SEA scheme. The Phantom is here supporting the F-22s in some way.

I thought to myself cool, not everyday you see a phantom. About that time I hear an F-16 in full blower taking off and my eyes are drawn to it. As it passes I can see it unpainted and sporting it metal finish. It runs the length of the runway, pulls vertical, and climbs (quickly) to around 30,000 feet. It then turns west and does a mach run towards the Utah test range. Not more than 5 minutes later here comes a couple of F-22s taking off.

In a 10 minute time-span I saw a classic from the past, a classic from the present, and the future of air combat pass right in front of me! I thought to myself…self…some people pay to see this shit and here you are getting paid to watch your own little airshow….life is good sometime!

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/f_22_1.jpg" border=0>

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/f_22_2.jpg" border=0>

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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2005, 05:50 
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Pictures are good. If I read it, you had a good day. And that first picture, it looks like an spy picture with all that fence in front of it. Dice the spy!
Are their still Phantoms flying in US service? I thought that only in Europe (Germany, Greece and Turkey) the Phantom in service.

Salute and have fun with spotting F-22
Dutchy


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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2005, 07:44 
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looking lean and mean, now was the f-4 the simulated lunch for the day.


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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2005, 07:45 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>In a 10 minute time-span I saw a classic from the past, a classic from the present, and the future of air combat pass right in front of me! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Felt the same way back in the '70s when I used to go over to Lambert Field and watch F-4s "escort" the then new F-15s while they did Viking departures. The F-4s took off first and dissapeared long before they reached whatever altitude the F-15s ended up at! The F-15s simply went straight up until they were litterally out of sight no matter how clear the day was. <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

A 9mm MAY expand, but a 45 will NEVER shrink!

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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2005, 13:02 
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<img src="http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL702/3046559/6177620/115727237.jpg" border=0>

Raptors In a Row

10/19/2005-OVER THE UNITED STATES--Lt. Col. James Hecker (front) and Lt. Col. Evan Dertein line up their F/A-22 Raptor aircraft behind a KC-10 Extender to refuel while en route to Hill Air Force Base, Utah. Colonel Hecker commands the first operational Raptor squadron -- the 27th Fighter Squadron at Langley Air Force Base, Va. The unit went to Hill for operation Combat Hammer, the squadron's first deployment, Oct. 15. The deployment has a twofold goal: complete a deployment and generate a combat-effective sortie rate away from home.
(Photo by TSgt. Ben Bloker)

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 02:40 
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Another milestone of the F-22 Raptor: http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012380

Dice-Man, did you see more on Hill about the F-22 or did you stay there for one day to watch them?

Salute
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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 05:19 
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Dutcy, I go to the flightline about once a day and I see them every time I go.

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 05:23 
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Dice-man, do you so close live to that Hill afb?
You got really luck with those visitors.

Salute and have fun there,
Dutchy

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 09:32 
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Dutchy, I live 3 miles from the base and work on the base. The A-10 hangar is only a 100 yards or so from the F-22 parking ramp.

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 09:44 
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Now that is a job!

Dice, did you happen to get the email I sent you about the Doorart?

TG out

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:26 
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<b>At Hill AFB, F/A-22 Engine Damaged by Foreign Object</b> (Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2005)
[Aerospace Daily & Defense Report, Oct. 25,

(by) Marc Selinger

A U.S. Air Force F/A-22 Raptor sustained significant engine damage while preparing to fly during the fighter program's first practice deployment.

The Lockheed Martin-built stealthy jet was engaged in "pre-flight ground operations" at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, late Oct. 20 when its right Pratt & Whitney F119 engine sucked in an undisclosed type of foreign debris, an Air Force spokeswoman said Oct. 24. The incident, in which no one was injured, is under investigation, and the extent of the damage is under review.

F/A-22 flights at Hill were canceled the day after the incident to allow operation and maintenance procedures to be reviewed. Flying resumed the next weekday, Oct. 24.

The damaged jet is the second Raptor to experience disabling equipment problems during the practice deployment, known as Combat Hammer, which began Oct. 15 and is scheduled to last about two weeks. A Raptor was sidelined early in the exercise by a malfunctioning avionics cooling system (DAILY, Oct. 18). But Richard Aboulafia, an aviation analyst at the Teal Group, said the glitches would not hurt the F/A-22's standing with the Air Force, which "loves the plane already."

The Hill activities are designed to prepare the Air Force to achieve the F/A-22's initial operational capability in December. Jets participating in Combat Hammer are based at Langley Air Force Base, Va.




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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:56 
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I hate to see what happens to the fool who left the foriegn objects on the flight line. Two dollar tool million dollar engine.


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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 12:09 
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One little FOD incedent and the cancel flying for the day. [sarcasm]Well, at least they are practicing like real life. Ahhhh, FO, stop all flying![/sarcasm] Man, it's making me sick how much the AF is kissing the Craptors ass.

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 12:59 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Man, it's making me sick how much the AF is kissing the Craptors ass.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Maybe it's because it works pretty good. The Craptor is the poo Jack...Take a big whiff.[sarcasm]

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 13:24 
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I remember the first few deployments of the F-16 in 79, same thing happened with those jets, they were seriously babied. Jack I am guessing you havent been around for the rollout of new weapon systems, this is typical. A veteran flightline guy should be able to read between the lines on what caused the FOD issue with the jet and why they canceled flying for the rest of the day.
I gotta say that after a week in class for the F/A-22 I am HIGHLY impressed by the systems on the jet! Its a different concept and will tkae some getting used to but in the end it will be worth it.

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Edited by - m&m on Oct 25 2005 12:30 PM

Edited by - m&m on Oct 25 2005 12:34 PM


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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 15:12 
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Dice-man that is real close. Have fun there.

Salute
Dutchy

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 15:31 
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I have not been around for a new weapons system rollout before. I'm sure the F-22 is a very capable jet, but it's so different, and thats why I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. I mean, I think about everything from an A-10 point of view. The underdog, you know. It's just that everything is <i>so</i> high profile with it it seems a little excessive. If our squadron commander briefed reporters every time we had a birdstrike, or dropped object, or hung munition he would be a busy mofo.

In any event, I certainly do not believe for a minute that a TDY, to Hill, for the star of the Air Force, can be considered a realistic example of how they would be able to operate in a real world deployment. I am willing to bet that they are being treated at Hill like the Thunderbirds are at Nellis. <i>Oh, you need a vehicle to get from billeting to work? Here's a brand new truck. Oh, you need a mule, no problem heres two, and they both work. How long until that part issues? Don't worry, it's already on the way.</i>

When the F-22 is deployed and then it is with about 1 weeks notice further deployed to a no BS bare base where it continues to kick ass, drop bombs, and not miss a single line for the duration of the deployment like we did at Al Jaber/Bagram then I will be impressed. For now I am still unconvinced and believe that this "deployemnt" is simply a dog and pony show.

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 15:38 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>For now I am still unconvinced and believe that this "deployment" is simply a dog and pony show.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Of course it is. "When eating elephants, take small bites"

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 19:15 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I hate to see what happens to the fool who left the foriegn objects on the flight line. Two dollar tool million dollar engine.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

This is why M&M made the point awhile back for the benefit of drafting people into the services, so advanced degree candidates can do thorough, exacting, FOD searches on runways... <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 19:34 
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LOL. I have suspicions that the best FOD walk in the world wouldn't have prevented this incident.
"was engaged in "pre-flight ground operations" = Happened on launch with the engine running of course. My educated guess? A nose landing gear pin. It would have to have been something like this for them to cancel flying for the rest of the day to review procedures, meaning it was fairly normal ops but they needed to see if things could be done differently.



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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2005, 20:02 
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"All landing gear pins shall be run through the nose of operations personel to insure proper accounting, any landing gear pin sucked into an engine shall be immediately pursued by the personel who failed to properly account for it."

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