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Hellscream, if you are still coming back to this board. Canards were tested extensively on the F-16 in the middle 80's. I do not see anything in US inventory using the technology developed from all that testing. I wonder why? :-p

Get a bigger hammer

Canards were even tested on the F-4. I believe the F-16CCV was as early as 1979.

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

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As the legendary Kelly Johnson once stated...

"The best place for canards is on your COMPETITOR'S airplane".



"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton
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Im not taking side's but the F-16XL was passed up for political reasons as much as any other "capability" factor.

The XL didn't have Canards.

It had the cranked arrow wing.

The F-16CCV was the one with the canards- though they were affixed vertically instead of horizontally.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

ok let me get this straight this is how a frenchman thinks. it is better to sacrifice visability to avoid having to change the whole canopy.

Now wonder they cant keep their elderly a live in a heat wave.


The only good thing about this is that natural selection will eventually weed out the french as global warming progresses.

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Canards were even tested on the F-4. I believe the F-16CCV was as early as 1979.

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...
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Chiming in here too...there was an F-15B tested with canards, the SMTD project if I remember right.

Ted

Boring the world, one post at a time.

The F-15 Active(Formerly the F-15 Agile Eagle), is the one with the canards(they are actually vert stabs from an F-18A).

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

Yup, that's the one I was thinking of. Thanks Sniper.

Ted

Boring the world, one post at a time.

LockMart and McDonnell JSF candidates both started out with canards. We've had canards since the Wright Flyer, but while they add aerodynamically (adding lift instead of adding downforce as a tail plane does, thus reducing drag and increasing maneuverability by producing the same lift from a smaller wing) they reduce visibility for the pilot and I suspect there is a stealth aspect to them that we havent heard about, the F-22 and F-35 "hide" thier tailplanes in the RCS shadow of thier main wing.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

F-22 and Su-33. It's all about two engines baby. Plus Su-33, great bang for buck.

"When you put your hand into a bunch of goo, that a moment before was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do."-George S. Patton, Jr.

There are only 20 SU-33's operational in the world, and one hasn't been made since the early 90's.

I think you mean the SU-30MkI

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

the SU-27SM will become the dominant Flanker model in a few years, basically a single seat SU-30MK.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Already the F/A18 A-D varinats have become formidible weapons platform, now some may not know this, but at the time the F16 was being developed, Northrop were developing the YF17 Cobra, it failed, however, there is a lot of similarities between the cobra and the hornet family.

Personally I think the FA18E/F is going to be better. The Eurofighter is an unknown quantity, built and designed by a committee I think that it is not gong to be as good as the dassault Rafale, or for that matter, the Tornado, yes the Typhoon is good, (on paper), but there are better.

I think that it is going to be a very close call between the Sukhoi SU33 variant of the Flanker and the Boeing / MD F/A18E/F

Hornet was developed from the YC-17, it's a direct decendant, McD was brought in cause the Navy didnt trust Northrup to develope a Navy plane.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

question> some have pics in the signature, how do I get one up there? the "<" and ">" show up with the addy, but no pic

<img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/newdawn/Ghost.gif" border=0>

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

Edited by - m21 sniper on Oct 10 2003 5:38 PM

I think you put the wrong link in. I fixed it, and it still isn't showing up. I cut and pasted the addy to my browser, and i got a big ole' page not available.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger."

Even though I hate to say it. The lawn dart community will be the future of Combat Aviation in the next 10 years. That will probably take the shape of the JSF The F-35 USAF version w/out the VTOL will probally be the next multi-role fighter to take the font seat in every mission with the exception of Air-Superiority. We will have the F-22 for that if it can keep itself in budget and working long enough to amount to a good fighter. The F-22 has a long hard road to prove its worth and only time will tell if it makes it. I think in the end another damn lawn dart the F-35 will end up being the work horse for 10-20 years, especially since multiple nations will be purchasing them off the production floor spreading the production cost amoung multiple nations.

Ugly but Well Hung

The answer to the gretest Fighter in the next ten years would have to be the JSF. Reasons being that its DT&E OT&E costs will be spread over several nations and the the production cost will be so much smaller because of the numbers being ordered. No other fighter will be as lethal with the avionic package being put in that thing. It will even have a SNIPER pod intergrated into it. It will the most widely sucessful fighter in history. All this even though its a damn lawn dart.

Ugly but Well Hung

Best Aircraft: F/A-22A Raptor. Best air-to-air fighter ever designed by a large margin. The one problem is that despite the 'A' added to its designation, it is only slightly more multirole than the F-15C it replaces.

Best multirole aircraft: F/A-18F Super Hornet. It can do air superiority, ground attack, tactical recon, and tanking duties fairly well.

LOL.....

Not another one.

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Edited by - m21 sniper on Nov 24 2003 10:10 PM

Welcome to the family Ben <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

$*#$%*$#%_#$*%-

LOL

Actually, i know Ben from another board. I think it's Warships1???

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

Edited by - m21 sniper on Nov 24 2003 10:20 PM

I was gonna respond last night but I thought "oh well" lol and hey EVERYBODY knows the Rafael[sic] is the king anyway!!! heh heh heh

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Rafale vs. F-18F, which would you want to fly in?



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