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67 Raptors have been procured in previous budgets (up to FY 2004) if I have my numbers right and another 24 are scheduled for in the FY 2005 budget, which was just introduced and has yet to pass. If the FY 2005 budget is accepted then 91 Raptors will be funded.

The first Raptor wing at Langley will require 72 F/A-22's PMAI according to articles.

Usually 66% of the total production aircraft are operatoinal PMAI aircraft. So 91 Raptors (which would be funded if the FY 2005 budget passes) yields only around 60 PMAI Raptors; not enough.

The FY 2006 budget, which will be introduced by DoD next year and not passed by Congress for basically for two years, would have to fund at least 18 F/A-22's in order for there to be enough Raptors to field the 1st Fighter Wing at Langley. If the FY 2005 budget proposed budget passes and the FY 2006 budget requests at least 18 Raptors and is passed, then there would be at least 109 funded Raptors in total. Once those Raptors are produced by the factory, there wouuld be 109 Raptors in the Air Force inventory, which would yield the 72 PMAI Raptors needed to completely field the Langley wing, assuming the 66% percent rule is right. So the Langley wing won't be completely ready until a little after 2006 if my numbers are right.

$18 billion would be the approximate price tag for producing the 109 Raptors that would be needed for the first operational wing. Around $12 billion has been already funded by Congress for 67 Raptors. The FY 2005 budget DoD presented (yet to be passed) asks for $3.6 billion for another 24 Raptors. In FY 2006, they have to ask for and be granted 18 more Raptors at around $2.8 billion, at the very least, to field the 1st FW at Langley.

I think the 1st FW will be fielded with Raptors, but how many Raptor squadrons above and beyond those in the 1st FW will be there be? That's the big question to me.

It is around $4 billion for every squadron of 24 birds.




Edited by - viperttb on Feb 22 2004 5:05 PM

Why do you need 750 Raptors anyway when these days most enemy airforces are destroyed on the ground?

*When/If the Raptor sees IOC, I really, <i>really</i> want to see the joint exercises pitting Air Force Raptors with Navy Super Hornets.

Edited by - Tritonal on Feb 22 2004 8:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>*When/If the Raptor sees IOC, I really, really want to see the joint exercises pitting Air Force Raptors with Navy Super Hornets. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

why? F-22 will blow the SH's brains out. Raptor is an "overmatch" for anything flying now or that has been revealed to be in the works, it just isnt even close. The only fight where Raptor <i>may</i> have problems is in a slow stall fight with head mounted cues for IR missles (both planes) because of the IR output of those mighty engines, but F-22 may still have better masking of IR output due to it's tail design, just would depend on the angles.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Why?
Because I think the best training a pilot can get would to be pitted against the best equipment.

No matter how fierce they tout the Raptor, it has no chance against a Congressmen and his vote.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The only fight where Raptor may have problems is in a slow stall fight with head mounted cues for IR missles (both planes) because of the IR output of those mighty engines, but F-22 may still have better masking of IR output due to it's tail design, just would depend on the angles.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Exhaust deflection is not going to change anything. Flying in Coldair doesnt do justice to any Ir Deception schemes. the advancelogic IR missile systems in development today. have totally removed any and if all advantage from the A2A realm of Ir Suppresion.

Ir suppression is more of a "heads on or S2A deception or negated detect range system. It has never done any good against a WVR knife Fight. Add in all aspect and these new Looping Missiles and rated burns. Your pretty much hosed if you allow the enemy to get in on your rear quarter.

Again this is why the emphysis on the BVR. If you are in WVR, you tactically dicked up theater wide in a big way...

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

AIM-9X is a thermal imager. It doesn't look at the tailpipe or exhaust plume....but at a thermal image of the plane itself.

At least that's what i've read.

I'm sure mudd will tell me if i'm wrong.

PS...i'll wager 100 bucks right now to all takers that you will never see ANY F-18 in regular USAF service.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

your right on the IIR.

If it dont have to land on a carrier, why would anyone NOT pick the F-15K? (for now at leaste till F-35/F-22 is available). Range, power, weapons, systems, "Special K " has it all.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

<i>USAF Reaffirms Backing for F-22 Program

(Source: US Air Force; issued Feb. 25, 2004)

WASHINGTON --- Air Force officials said they will continue with the F/A-22 Raptor program.

Fervor over the Army’s cancellation of the $6.9 billion Comanche helicopter program Feb. 23 raised questions about the future of the Air Force’s F/A-22, said the director of Air Force combat force capability requirements.

Col. Kurt Dittmer said the Air Force still has big plans for the multirole, supersonic, stealth fighter.

“[For] anything the U.S. military wants to do in the future, its lead effort is going to be the F/A-22,” Colonel Dittmer said. “We think it offers a significant transformation capability for all services. It will get you into the air space to let you do what you want to do.”

The F/A-22’s speed and stealth make it more survivable in a high-threat environment than other stealth aircraft such as the F-117 Nighthawk or the B-2 Spirit, the colonel said. While the F/A-22 brings new capability to the air war, it also extends the capability of existing aircraft, he said.

“The F-117 and B-2 are limited to flying at night,” Colonel Dittmer said. “They are low-observable to radar, but don’t have the ability to defend themselves against air threats. The F/A-22 has air-to-air ordnance and has the capability to survive in the high-threat battle space. It can take out those threats in the daytime, and that allows the F-117 and B-2 to fly in the daytime. The F/A-22 changes our stealth to a 24-hours-a-day, 7-days-a-week capable force.”

The F/A-22 also brings a joint capability to the table, meaning all the services will benefit from its abilities. Other branches of the military will bring significant capabilities of their own to the battle space, but Colonel Dittmer said the Air Force must first establish air dominance for that to happen.

“We gain access for everybody,” Colonel Dittmer said. “Any future combat operations in high threat environment are going to require that we first establish air dominance. The F/A-22 will be the first thing combatant commanders ask for.”

The Air Force has received more than 20 F/A-22s, the colonel said. Those are currently at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla.; Edwards AFB, Calif.; and Nellis AFB, Nev., and are being used for testing and to train Air Force pilots.

The Air Force plans to purchase nearly 300 Raptors. The first operational F/A-22 squadron should stand up in December 2005, at Langley AFB, Va. </i>

<i>(Source: US Air Force; issued Mar. 3, 2004)


WASHINGTON --- The F/A-22 Raptor program was a topic of discussion as the service’s senior executive testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 2.

Secretary of the Air Force Dr. James G. Roche, along with the other service secretaries, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee for the service secretaries’ posture portion of the 2005 Department of Defense Authorization hearing series.

Despite some minor glitches, the F/A-22 Raptor is destined to guarantee American air dominance, the secretary said.

“The limiting problem we have now … has to do with failure of small parts on the plane, such that you don’t get enough sorties per day,” Secretary Roche said.

One of the problems is there are only a few subcontractors able to replace faulty parts. The secretary said that problem would plague any future aircraft produced in the United States, including the Joint Strike Fighter.

“It’s good to know it now, so hopefully we can prepare for it,” he said.

The secretary noted that Russian aircraft currently in development compare favorably with the Air Force’s F-15 Eagle, but the Raptor would prevail in a head-to-head match up.

“The planes the former Soviet Union are constructing are very good. But, you bring the F/A-22 into the picture and it changes dramatically,” he said. “The F/A-22 … deters anybody from building a system and thinking they can achieve air dominance because they can’t.” </i>