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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2005, 11:08 
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<i>The following statement was released by the AF to the Hill this afternoon.</i>

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Air Force Operational Test and Evaluation Center (AFOTEC) has completed Initial Operational Test and Evaluation of the F/A-22. AFOTEC rated the aircraft as effective and potentially suitable.



Effectiveness measures the ability to accomplish the mission. The operational effectiveness of the F/A-22 is overwhelming, demonstrated by the Raptor's ability to operate against adversary ground and air defenses with impunity. Ground defenses could not engage the F/A-22, nor could adversary aircraft survive.



Suitability measures the degree to which a system can be sustained in the field. Though rated potentially suitable, the Raptor is on track to demonstrate full suitability by year's end. For example, two sustainability shortcomings identified during IOT&E will be addressed this year. Integrated diagnostics will be updated at least two more times before Initial Operating Capability (IOC) is declared. Flightline radar signature assessment will be addressed by tech order data and training prior to IOC. We are finding that the aircraft is easier to maintain and deploy than our legacy aircraft, even with the challenge of low observable maintenance.



The F/A-22 program is on path to reach IOC in December 2005. A full rate production decision is expected this year. F/A-22 testing will continue with Follow-on Test & Evaluation (FOT&E) focusing on testing air-to-ground capabilities of the aircraft. Training of operational pilots is ongoing at Tyndall AFB, while Langley AFB is preparing the 27th Fighter Squadron to become the first combat ready F/A-22 unit. The Raptor will soon be ready to fight our Nation's wars!






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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2005, 11:15 
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You forgot to paste the last sentence on the very bottom of that letter:
<i>Soooo, when can we expect your check to come in the mail?</i><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2005, 12:03 
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If the project has come this far, how likely is it that this bird gets the "ax"?
My guess: Not likely at all.


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2005, 11:13 
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<i>And now more from the Pollyanna News Channel. Play the glad game with me now</i>


<b>For Raptor Challengers, Losing's Part of the Job</b> (Posted: Wednesday, February 02, 2005)
[Air Force Times, Feb. 07, 2005]

By Laura M. Colarusso
Times staff writer

NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. — Among the F/A-22’s opponents, there’s none more determined than Maj. Robert Garland, whose job is to beat the Raptor, the Air Force’s most advanced fighter jet.

It’s a tough job. He flies an F-15C.

He’s never won.

Garland and his F-15 buddies, assigned to the 422nd Test and Evaluation Squadron, fly against the Raptor to find its weaknesses and help develop the tactics to employ the Air Force’s newest fighter jet.

“The Raptor is going to win, but that’s what it’s designed for,” said Garland, who is also an F/A-22 pilot. “It doesn’t matter, really, how experienced we are or if we have a good day or a bad day. The Raptor is going to succeed.”

Even though they rarely win, the pilots of the 422nd radiate confidence. They say they use each sortie to improve their skills in the F-15. They’re on a mission to prove themselves against the aircraft the Air Force has billed as the best in the world because of its speed, stealth and integrated avionics.

“When I go out in an F-15 and I fight a guy in a Raptor, if a guy does a good job in that airplane, there’s no chance that I have to defeat him,” Garland said.

It sounds discouraging, and these pilots talk at length about being throttled, kicked in the face and frustrated by the Raptor. But Garland and the others who train against it say the fight’s not supposed to be fair.

The training missions almost always start out with the Raptor in a defensive position, because otherwise it would be a “waste of gas,” said Maj. Robert Novotny, another F-15 pilot with the 422nd.

When the F/A-22 is on the defensive and the fight is taking place in a visual maneuvering environment — meaning the aircraft are in close, so everybody can see each other — the F-15s have more of a chance.

These fights are violent, said Lt. Col. Art McGettrick, a former F-15 pilot who now solely flies the F/A-22 with the 422nd. The pilots pull 9 Gs, perform jarring maneuvers and generally try to beat each other up when the F-15s and the F/A-22 fight, because they are trying to wring out the Raptor to find any deficiencies.

The pilots prepare for the mental and physical demands of dogfighting, Garland said. They study tactics constantly and try to learn from the mistakes highlighted in the mission debriefings. The pilots also train like professional athletes, lifting weights and running several miles a week, he said.

Once in a while, if the scenario is set up right, Novotny has been able to shoot the Raptor. Two new technologies, the AIM-9X missile and the Helmet Mounted Cueing System, have leveled the playing field by giving the F-15s the ability to shoot off-bore sight shots.

Pilots once had to maneuver so the noses of their jets were pointing at the enemy. Now they can simply look at the target and shoot, shaving seconds off the targeting process.

But if the mock battle starts from a distance, the F/A-22 is in its element, and there is little an F-15 can do against it, according to Garland. The Raptor’s radar and standoff weapons allow it to shoot enemy aircraft before they even know the Raptor is there, McGettrick said.

Yet they keep trying. Novotny has never gunned down a Raptor, the ultimate in air-to-air combat. But when asked whether he’s given up fighting the Raptor, Novotny’s enthusiasm for the mission is clear.

“Hell no,” he says, pounding the table. “I love it.”

Novotny says sometimes his goal is to just survive for 60 to 120 seconds.

“Nobody wants to get beat,” said Novotny, who has flown about 1,700 hours in the F-15. “It’s a very frustrating fight for me, because I almost never, ever, ever see, hear [or] smell the Raptor, and I’m dead. So, it’s a really boring ride for me, because I get killed all the time.”




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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2005, 11:34 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Play the glad game with me now<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Everyone sing along with Eric, now:
"I'm so glad.
I'm so glad.
I'm glad I'm glad I'm glad..."

Repeat until gladness overruns your neurons.


So, you have trouble. We all have trouble. Build a bridge and get over it.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2005, 06:50 
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<i>Here is an excerpt from Defense Daily that says something about what was tested</i>

<b>F/A-22 Performance 'Overwhelming,'</b> But System Rated 'Potentially' Suitable (Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2005)
[Defense Daily, Feb. 3, 2005]

By Amy Butler

The jet also received accolades for its effectiveness, which Karas described as "overwhelming." Five scenarios were tested between April and September 2004. They were as follows:

First look, first kill: one F/A-22 against one F-16;
High value airborne asset attack: two Raptors against four F-16s protecting a simulated enemy airborne asset;
B-2 protection: two F/A-22s protecting a single B-2 against four F-16 aggressors;
High value airborne asset protection: four F/A-22s protecting a single friendly asset against four F-16 aggressors
F-117 protection: four F/A-22s protecting four F-117s against eight F-16 aggressors.
"The Raptor conducted operations against adversary aircraft and air defenses with virtual impunity," Karas said. "The ground defense systems could not engage the Raptor, and adversary aircraft were overwhelmingly defeated."

The F/A-22's performance exceeded that of the F-15 more than twice over, Karas said.


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2005, 07:43 
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Waaa You cant do that it just makes us more unsafe to be that much superior.--the mindset of liberal who believes in national equality.


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2005, 16:40 
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The Quadrennial Defense Review is coming up. The Pentagon is taking a hard look at how they deal with airspace. 179 figure now, bu that'll help decide whether the Raptor gets 1 wing, 1.5 wings, or 2 wings.

"Steady boys. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance" - Major General John Sedgwick's last words on May 9, 1864, just before he was shot dead by a Confederate sharpshooter

Edited by - ViperTTB on Feb 17 2005 3:46 PM


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2005, 18:38 
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The thing is still just a bunch of RT&D for the F-35


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2005, 13:20 
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This from http://www.fa22raptor.com/technology/data.html

Key Performance Parameter, Requirement, Current Estimate, Margin

Radar Cross Section (dB), X dB, Favorable, Favorable

Supercruise, 1.5 Mach, 1.72 Mach, 15%

Acceleration (vs Time), 54 sec, 53 sec, 2%

Maneuverability (0.9M/30Kft), 3.7 g, 3.7 g, 0%

Combat Radius (NM) Mission 1 (Sub+Super), 260+100nm, 310+100nm, 14%

Radar Detection Range, 100%, 105%, 5%

Airlift Support, 8, 8.4, (0.4)

Mean Time Between
Maintenance (hrs), 3.0, 3.0, Meets



Test Highlights

F/A-22 Flight Test
Accomplishments, 28 February 05

Flight Tests, Cum. Missions, Cum. Hours

Flight Sciences, 1674, 3401.6

Mission Avionics, 1005, 2424.7

IOT&E*, 535, 1291.2

Modernization, 11, 13.3

Total, 3225, 7130.8+

*IOT&E Flying Complete

Mission Success Events Status

Maximum Altitude > 60,000 ft

Maximum Speed > 800 KCAS

Maximum Mach > 2.0

Maximum AOA > ±60 deg.

Maximum Nz -2.0 to +9.0 g's
The F/A-22 Raptor is currently
meeting or exceeding all key
performance parameters.






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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2005, 13:55 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Maneuverability (0.9M/30Kft), 3.7 g, 3.7 g, 0%<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Stress, can you make a guestimate as to the weight state of the plane for those numbers? I think I might have come pretty close with my FM.

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2005, 13:51 
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I know I'm gonna take flak for this, but I <i>really</i> want to see 4 Raptors on 4 Super Hornets.



Edited by - tritonal on Mar 11 2005 12:52 PM


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2005, 14:43 
That'd be like 4 Myrmidons vs 4 Frenchmen.

LOL...

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2005, 15:11 
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Whether or not, they will meet in the near future.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2005, 15:43 
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SH is the best CV plane being made, but no match for the Raptor, although that turn rate at 30K is extremely close to the F-15 depending on what weight the Raptor was at at the time.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2005, 23:13 
" SH is the best CV plane being made"

Well that's not saying a whole lot now is it? ;)

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2005, 23:52 
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ok all things considered it is the best CV plane ever.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2005, 08:51 
" ok all things considered it is the best CV plane ever."

Pffft....LOL!

Forgive me while i peruse the kill totals of the F6F Hellcat.

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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2005, 08:54 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
" ok all things considered it is the best CV plane ever."

Pffft....LOL!

Forgive me while i peruse the kill totals of the F6F Hellcat.

<i><b>"US Snipers...providing surgical strikes since 1776"</b></i>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>or the Brewster Buffalo....

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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2005, 16:41 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
SH is the best CV plane being made, but no match for the Raptor, although that turn rate at 30K is extremely close to the F-15 depending on what weight the Raptor was at at the time.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
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<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I don't see how as IIRC, the ATF requirements called for 12 DPS across the board. Surely, above FL300, the F15 isn't in the double digit area in regarding to STR.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2005, 02:15 
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F-22 Raptor. What a great plane to see. One of mine favourites (After the number 1: A-10...whate else?)

Nice to see that I can follow the news about the Raptor on this site.

Salute
Dutchy

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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2005, 09:24 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
SH is the best CV plane being made, but no match for the Raptor, although that turn rate at 30K is extremely close to the F-15 depending on what weight the Raptor was at at the time.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I don't see how as IIRC, the ATF requirements called for 12 DPS across the board. Surely, above FL300, the F15 isn't in the double digit area in regarding to STR.




<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
The charts I have for F-15 at 30K shows 4.0 Gs sustained turn rate at Mach 0.9 at 36,000lb, that drops to 3.0Gs at 46,000lb. Thats why I want to know what the weight state of the F-22 was for those tests.

Where did you get the 12 DPS number from?

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Edited by - boomer on Apr 21 2005 08:32 AM

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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2005, 10:07 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The charts I have for F-15 at 30K shows 4.0 Gs sustained turn rate at Mach 0.9 at 36,000lb, that drops to 3.0Gs at 46,000lb. Thats why I want to know what the weight state of the F-22 was for those tests.

Where did you get the 12 DPS number from?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

For the -22, from various sources.

Edited by - JData on Apr 21 2005 09:38 AM


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2005, 13:38 
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well DPS would change tremendously with velocity, so you gotta have one WITH the other.

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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2005, 10:03 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>ok all things considered it is the best CV plane ever. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That is a little presumptious considering it has a very short operational record. When the first 18E/F aviator becomes a "centurian" or the F-18E/F tallies its first Mig kill, or even reaches 3500 saltwater flight hours we can start making statements like that. The F-18E/F is what the Navy needed because its new, but the argument that it is the the aircraft the Navy needed is another matter all together, and something that I do not need to get into. The F-18E/F has a remarkable avionics suite now lets see how it performs in an operational carrier enviornment.



Edited by - Bolter on Apr 22 2005 09:04 AM


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