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\"Meant to be 30 Years Ago\": The A-10C
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Author:  majormadmax [ 28 Feb 2008, 00:11 ]
Post subject:  \"Meant to be 30 Years Ago\": The A-10C
From the AFA Daily...links included (in color).

Cheers! M2

\"Meant to be 30 Years Ago\": That's the view of Air National Guard Lt. Col. Donald Henry of the \"new\" A-10C, which he helped bring to fruition as Air Combat Command's ANG A-10 program element monitor and which he flew in combat in Afghanistan. \"The A-10C is the heaviest modernization program the A-10 has ever gone through,\" he said and added, \"This is what the A-10 was meant to be 30 years ago.\" The new avionics, fully integrated targeting pods, and smart weapons, such as the Joint Direct Attack Munition, have produced an \"effects-based upgrade\" that enhances pilot situational awareness, said Henry. During one close air support mission, Henry said that the C model Hog enabled him to drop a JDAM \"right in the middle of the target.\" He added: \"I could see exactly where the friendlies were, where the enemies were. It would have taken much longer to verify their location, to roll in with dumb bombs. The JDAM made it extremely easy and precise.\" USAF has set 2011 as the date by which it will have all Hogs upgraded to C models and has issued a contract for new wing sets to prolong service life. Now, if USAF could just get new Hog engines. (Langley report by SSgt. Thomas Doscher)
Author:  Warthog30 [ 28 Feb 2008, 03:52 ]
Post subject:  RE:
I can attest to the fact that flying the A-10C is pretty awesome. I'm approaching 100 hours in the airplane and its revolutionary...
Author:  Dice-man [ 28 Feb 2008, 08:52 ]
Post subject: 
\"This is what the A-10 was meant to be 30 years ago.\"

I'm sorry but I don't agree and I think this statement doesn't give the proper credit to the people who designed, built, flew, and maintained the A-10A for the past 30 years. :roll: The A-10A was (and still is) just what it was meant to be and has kick ass in every conflect the US has been involved in for the past 19 years (following DS) mainly because of the pilots and maintainers who have worked and flown her.

Pulls soapbox out.....looks around.....slides soapbox back.

The A-10C has some BIG shoes to fill, lets see if she can do it as proudly and with as much honor as the A-10A has. :?:
Author:  Bacon Bits [ 28 Feb 2008, 18:28 ]
Post subject: 
Don't think the statement meant to denigrate the achievements of the Hog community, I took it to mean that the Hog would have been an even bigger world beater if it hadnt been forced to stand last in the queue for updates behind the 'sexy jets' (some might say it wasnt even permitted to join this 'queue')
Remember the late Dave Sawyers quote in Smallwoods 'Warthog' book speculating on the A-10's performance had they had the LASTE mod for the conflict........off the top of my head \"We were a pretty good gorilla, but if we'd had the LASTE mod over there we'd have been King Kong\"

The Hog fliers and maintainers have always wrung as much as they could out of that airframe with brilliant results, now they have the updates they deserve for even greater capability. 8)
Author:  sgtgoose1 [ 01 Mar 2008, 01:30 ]
Post subject: 
I liked to see the new \"A-10C\" one day up close. It to me looks like a \"New Aircraft\" I bet I wouldn't know half the systems they have installed on the \"C\" mod.
I just remember the \" Tin Can\" FLIR pods ( IR AGM-65) and a pair of Binoculars and the Great \"IFR\" (I Follow the Road) navigation system during
the GW1.
Got to hand it to the \"Pilots\" for their \"Mother of Jerry Rigging\" to get the job down and the CrewDawgs \"Mid-Nite\" \"Brain Storms\" and \"ABDR\" that was performed too.
That was before they went with \"You borrowed a part from another Jet\" your going to Jail crap\"
All you needed was your \"Gerber Multi tool, Mini Maglite, RTV ,extra \"APEX's\" and your trusty \"Bag of Tricks\" (scrounge bag).

I suppose now you'd be sent to Prison for doing repairs like that with parts from the \"Bag of Tricks\"

But I 'm glad the \"Old War Hog\" is getting a \"Facelift\" She deserves it and will be performing GREAT UNTIL She dies probably when the BUFF does.

Goose
Author:  boomer [ 01 Mar 2008, 09:57 ]
Post subject: 
maybee it's more accurate to say the A-10C is what the NAWS was to be 30 years ago. The A-10A was exactly what it was meant to be, a battlefield sledgehammer.
Author:  Coach [ 01 Mar 2008, 18:35 ]
Post subject: 
I am sitting here in my kitchen with this week's Langley base paper that has this article in it. The title is \"Newly Upgraded A-10C Revolutionizes Close Air Support\". I have real problems with that statement...CAS has not changed, just the tools we use. The concept of attacking targets in close proximity to friendly troops so that these attacks must be coordinated with the fire and manuever of the friendly ground forces has not changed. Only the tools we use.

The article also claims the Hog now to be \"night and all weather...I'll go with night, but not all weather. Again, just because we can now drop a bomb on coordinates doesn't make us all weather. Coordinates have never overrun friendly units or taken down a building. CAS hasn't changed, only the tools we use.

This is the kind of slimy, back slapping, contractor-fed propaganda that ruins the increased capabilities so many of us have worked for decades to field. We need to exercise some self discipline when in front of the media.

Just like in sports, let your play do the talking and keep your mouth shut.

Coach
Author:  Dutchy [ 02 Mar 2008, 03:30 ]
Post subject: 
A-10 article on AF.mil
http://www.afrc.af.mil/newsreleases/sto ... =123086602
Author:  Coach [ 02 Mar 2008, 18:44 ]
Post subject: 
Is the A+ SMFCD a local modification? Or does it do to Hill to have it done?

Coach
Author:  Old Chief [ 02 Mar 2008, 20:02 ]
Post subject: 
It's done \"on-base\" by a CFT Coach. Depending on which team does the mod the jet is down for 2-4 days plus a day on each end for prep and op's checks.

OC
Author:  Dice-man [ 03 Mar 2008, 18:46 ]
Post subject: 
I don’t believe the A-10C should be compared with the “A” model in any way because it’s such a radical modification. It’s like comparing a NASCAR to one off the showroom floor, they may look something alike on the outside but, inside they are light-years apart.

After so many years of being proud of what we did with the A-10A are we going to start saying what we could have done if we had the A-10C? This, in MHO, lessens the A-10A’s history of achievements.

I have nothing ageist the A-10C, hell anything the AF will give to help do the job better I’m all for it but, lets keep them in the proper context and not degrade one to make the other look better.
Author:  boomer [ 03 Mar 2008, 19:53 ]
Post subject: 
The A-10C will spend a good part of it's life paving the way for techniques for the F-35. Can CAS be done from 20,000ft? The C will find out.
Author:  Coach [ 03 Mar 2008, 23:56 ]
Post subject: 
boomer wrote:
Can CAS be done from 20,000ft?


That's already been proven.

I agree with Dice, let's keep it in perspective. The upgrade is an increase in capability, but the A-model has more than proven that what it does is needed in today's operations.

Hopefully, we won't get so caught up in the beeps and squeaks that we forget the basics: "see the target, kill the target, save the good guys".

Coachasaurus Rex
Author:  Dice-man [ 04 Mar 2008, 08:55 ]
Post subject: 
Coach wrote:
boomer wrote:
Can CAS be done from 20,000ft?


That's already been proven.

I agree with Dice, let's keep it in perspective. The upgrade is an increase in capability, but the A-model has more than proven that what it does is needed in today's operations.

Hopefully, we won't get so caught up in the beeps and squeaks that we forget the basics: "see the target, kill the target, save the good guys".

Coachasaurus Rex


Thanks Coach and well said.
Author:  sgtgoose1 [ 06 Mar 2008, 01:02 ]
Post subject: 
+2 Coach



Goose
Author:  TinyGiant [ 13 Mar 2008, 14:27 ]
Post subject: 
Coach wrote:
Hopefully, we won't get so caught up in the beeps and squeaks that we forget the basics: "see the target, kill the target, save the good guys".
Coachasaurus Rex


It's funny to see some of the studs complain about the steam-powered gauges that exist, even in the C. They get trained in an all-glass T-6, followed by a glass T-38C, then show up to the Hog. We have to hold A-model appreciation day just so they see how many of the in-cockpit common tasks have become easier to accomplish.

Next challenge - get their craniums out of the drool cups that are the TAD, TGP, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. and look the f*** outside...

Tape 3.3 will fix everything!
Author:  M21 Sniper [ 13 Mar 2008, 14:50 ]
Post subject: 
I think A-10C is exactly what the A-10A was NOT supposed to be. Complicated, technologically reliant, EXPENSIVE.

This is not to say the A-10C isn't a great bird, but the \"A\" was never intended as a 'precision platform'.

Not even close.
Author:  sgtgoose1 [ 13 Mar 2008, 15:40 ]
Post subject: 
I agree Sniper,

The A-10A was designed to stop \"Russian Tanks in Europe\" encase the \"balloon went-up and the Super Bowl\" started\" and our job was to \"Slow down their progression while the NATO forces determined\" their course of action, whether, Tactical Nuke Strikes, withdrawal of forces to a set line, or a \"Hold Action\" while more Troops came over from the \"RDFs\".

Our mission we were told and trained for was to \"Be a Road Bump\" against the East Germans and Poles\" and we were expected to take 28 A-10's over within 24 hours and start turning jets within 6 hours or less of landing and a Kill to jet ratio to be \"10 to 1\" 10 tanks for every Hog\" knowing some wouldn't get even one tank while other pilots would rack-up \"Tank Ace 3x+ plus over\"

But during same time at Plus Balloon 72 hours , we would be under long range artillery fire and FROGs by that time and possible \"Chemical Attack\".

They figured the loss of 60%the Personnel with 50% of the Hogs was a \"Good trade since the A-10 was a \"Cheap Asset\" compared to a M1-A1 Tank and hold on long enough to either \"Have a Nuke exchange or cease -fire\"

We didn't have to go \"Head to Head\" with the Warsaw Pact\" but we did go up against their equipment, which we I have to say
KICK THEIR ASS using that \"Cheap Asset\" .

Now with the A-10C being put into the same tasking , maybe not against as many tanks as once was just loosing \"1\" C model will be like the loss of \"3\" A models cost wise plus not replaceable to an extent.

I'm still not sure of alot of \"Bells and Whistles\" are better than a \"Tough SOB of an Jet with a Tough SOB of a Pilot\" in the Cockpit with less \"Fancy Crap\".
Now it comes down to \"The Maintainers Keeping the \"Bells and Whistles\" working and the \"Pilot being able to if need be still do the mission \"With or Without \" the help of the \"Bells and Whistles\".

New Engines and Wings and some of the \"Needed upgrades would of been cheaper and probably better then all this \"Glass Cockpit Crap\" .

But I'm talking from an \"Old Crew Chief\" view of we dealt with in DS-1 and the \"Hard Breaks\" we had and the turn around times of getting a Jet back into the Fight. We cleared the Line several days of all of our Jets, with just a \"Canx Bird\" left and then trying to get it up using parts off of the ABDR birds and parts sent over from the States off of all things \"Static Display Birds\"

We'll see but she's not her \"Mothers A-10 \" :wink:

Goose
Author:  Coach [ 14 Mar 2008, 01:27 ]
Post subject: 
TinyGiant wrote:
Next challenge - get their craniums out of the drool cups that are the TAD, TGP, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. and look the f*** outside...

tape 3.3 will fix everything!


Be in position, on the right freq and ready to employ. Don't need any tapes to do that right.

Tiny, teach them right!

Coach
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