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It depends on how far you want to go. Farther means higher.

Coach

We can fly as low as we want. Trees however are the mitigating factor.........................I take that back, trees are sometimes the mitigating factor. Everyone hold on for one of Gooses \"I remember this one time\" stories.

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YGBSM !

Oh, You Wish? You \"Dog Handler\"

This is stuff you can get out any of the \"Books wrote on the warthog\"


By the way Billy, whats going on these days?

Goose

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

I understand I could probably get a lot of these easy specs from one of those books. The local bookstores don't have them in stock though and ordering them doesn't make sense for what I am trying to do. My college only has 7 week terms so a term goes by quick and I only have this class for 1 term. So instead of spending more of my slim college student budget and wasting 1/7th of my class waiting on a book to arrive in the mail I was hoping the forum could provide some data straight from the guys with the experience. Most of my project is already above what the prof expects since most of the class is doing little civilian or commerical jets with a flight plan of take off, cruise, loiter, land with little manuevering or payload calculations required.

On the other hand as far as my project goes. We have initial sizing done with a sketch. Looking at a loaded weight of 51,000 lbs. The wings have a leading edge sweep of 20 degrees to allow higher speed flight although it looks like the speeds will only be seen either at high altitudes or in a dive. I have come to realize it requires huge amounts of thrust to make these things go fast in SLF down at sea level, stupid air density . The tail is staying roughly the same and we are going with one engine in the fuselage and the other directly above that. Thrust may be almost doubled...we will see after a few more calculations.

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Kyle Gauthier
USAF ROTC Det 340
Pilot Select '08

SLF? What's that stand for?
Edit - I think I just thought of the answer to my own question - Straight Level Flight?

You mean like the Electric Lightning? http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/uk/en ... /XS927.jpg

Makes the fuselage bulkier (larger radar return) and in the event of a SAM discharge (much higher signature for a heater to find and lock onto) - would potentially damage both engines and thus making it exponetially more difficult for it to RTB. Survivability numbers dropping quickly on this bird and it isn't even off the paper yet

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Just give me some ammo, a little water.....and some chips if you got 'em

At DM, it was the Cactus. Had a Hawg come back from a mission once when I was on Dearm EOR, with a chunk of a cactus about the size of my head stuck in his Right Main tire. Spent almost 15 minutes with a Buck knife and a pair of pliers tying to get it out of the rubber so he could taxi back. He also lost his Right wind fence and got a nice green smear down the side of the bird and under the wing.

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Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

jack, yea SLF is what the prof uses for steady level flight.

We are trying to keep the survivability up since its one of the A-10's strongest points. The engines aren't quite like that aircraft. Basically one engine will be mounted like the 16 (inside the fuselage) while the 2nd will be just like the engine pods on the A-10 right now except vertically above the fuselage. The upper engine will also be a little forward of where the engines on the A-10 are currently located to keep as much of its exhaust hidden by the tail and also further seperated from any damage the lower engine may take, not to mention keep the weight closer to the center of lift.

Ice Pirate, the cactus was still stuck on there after landing? That mustve been a fairly bumpy landing...

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Kyle Gauthier
USAF ROTC Det 340
Pilot Select '08

Ok here is some links

This one is \"Why\" the Frogfoot\" was built in its Config.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avsu25.html
http://wantscheck.com/More/MilNews/tabi ... fault.aspx
http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/a10.htm
http://www.3dactionplanet.com/flashpoint/a10.html
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=446310
http://www.aviationfans.com/node/14
And heres one from the USAF
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/a-10/

So that gives you basically everything you need to do your project without any of us \"Disclosing or violating OPSEC.

Its not that we \"Don't want to Give you EVERYTHING, We can't tell you .
The pilots can't tell you Or Don't want to give away their \"tactics\" so many books do that enough but they have \"Over Came alot\" of short comings by \"Improvising\"

Desert Storm for one , They used \"IR AGM-65's as a poor Mans \"FLIR\" Pod.
But placing your engines on the back like that your inviting an SA-4 in your \"ASS\" with a Prox Det Fuse that will make the Aircraft Useless.
IR SAM's aren't the only problem , After you see a A-10 come home with \"Half of an engine gone, Tail Shot to Hell, Holes every where and the pilot can still land with one engine \"That is has Fan Damage\" You can't beat the Engine Configuration and it wasn't an \"IR\" missile.

Its like the Old saying \"If you can't Go Fast \"GO UGLY\"

Speed isn't everything, its Survivability First, because there's nothing like seeing a \"LAWNDART\" come in IFE on its EPU and it finally gives out as it lands and when you look at the damage it has \"2\" holes 1 the #2 Horizontal Stab(Evlaon ) and 1 in its intake the size of a quarter.

So think about Survivability .

Goose

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

So the second engine is mounted on the dorsal spine of the airframe? Ummm if that engine has a catastrophic failure of signifigant proportions (whether it be SAM, b1rd or whatever) your nacell better contain it sufficiently or the damage to the main airframe will not be survivable. Modelling it after the GI Joe Rattlesnake isn't exactly the way to improve the concept, IMO. When pulling up and off a target the heat will be the only thing the enemy will see and that will surely invite a heater.

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Just give me some ammo, a little water.....and some chips if you got 'em

Hiding the exhaust will not defeat modern missile technology.

True dat Coach, IIR doesn't need motor heat at all, friction is more than enough.

SL you might want to think about a concept that was bantered around a few years back in the biz-jet world. Two dissimilar engines ( I can hear the maintainers bellowing already lol ) mounted one above the other. The main engine is optimized for cruise the aux engine is optimized to compliment the other engine during takeoff and in a military jet high performance flight. The aux engine would not be used during cruise flight.

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

I thought about this yesterday while We tried to clean-out from under the (8\" snow fall with 4-6ft drifts ) and thought I remembered the LUFTWAFFE having a Experimental jet aircraft in one of those \"WW2 Warbird\" coffee table books I have. Sure enough I found a link to it on line.

Henschel Hs 132
Looks like whats being described here except for the \"Engine in the tail.\"That has swept wings enough to carry a \"Ok bomb load\" possibly .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_132

How many of you Pilots would \"Love to have to use the Ejection seat\" in that kind of Jet\"?

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

Boomer you have a point , look at the DC-10.

We all have seen the \"DC-10\" that landed in Iowa in the 90's ( I can't think of the movie) Where the Tail engine(#3) Fan Assy, failed and damaged the Hydraulic lines and Flt Cables plus Rudder control.

You NEVER want an engine in a \"Critical Area\" where as everyone has been saying \"Is a Death Sentence even from a Rock or Bird let alone a missile.

I bet just with the \" Aircraft Backgrounds here\" and \"Lancer We have a member here who hasn't posted in awhile who now is working on the \"New Airframes\" Who actually help Build and Design the A-10 in the Early 70's , I'm sure a few of you guys could design a \"Super A-10\" with more performance, Speed, Weapon capability that is a \"Real Concept\" and could work.

Goose

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

The bigger brother to the He-132 is the He-162 Salamander: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_162

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Just give me some ammo, a little water.....and some chips if you got 'em

Thanks for the websites. Those are some interesting concepts. We were planning on having the engine more detached from the fuselage than that, actually thinking of having it on the same type of mounting arm the current one has ensuring damage the engine takes is kept apart from the rest of the aircraft.

Boomer, that was actually what I had originally had in mind. The internal engine being the F118 out of the U2 and the top engine only being used in situations where the thrust is needed. Then yea we got into thinking about it from maintainers side and whatnot and our professor highly suggested we didnt have 2 different engines. So instead we are going to stick to having 2 engines probably putting out around 13,000 lbs each so that we could fly fine on one engine.

It would be pretty cool to see what real concept could be come up with for a \"Super A-10\" with people who know what they are doing and using new technology. Although that is kinda one of the things that makes the A-10 so unique i guess, its simple, straight to the point no frills and damn good at what it does...

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Kyle Gauthier
USAF ROTC Det 340
Pilot Select '08

Just take the A-10C, Give it its new wings, cockpit etc and \"BETTER ENGINES\" something that the A-10 Family have wanted for years.

You don't want to make a \"Mach-1\" CAS jet. Hummmmm? FA-16 comes to mind. 30mm Gun Pod, ________________________ fill in your own blank.

Give the Hog a \"up graded version of the TF-34's and She'll be another
\"BUFF\". Some Hogs are Older then you, Well Every A-10 is Older than you.
So before you know it She'll be a \"Fighting 50 year Old at the rate now.

Goose

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

I remember being TDY to Little Rock from Shaw back about '93. Capt \"Runner\" Brown squawked in with an IFE, some kind of canopy problem. Turns out he flew under a power line somewhere in the Arkansas country side and did a mess of damage to his jet. Mostly around the canopy area. We were all amazed the wire never hit the verticals.

Yeah, ole Runner was one of our more storied pilots. Got into a real bad mess in Vegas one year. You had to be there to know that one. Heck, he even punched off a LAU-68 rocket launcher on one TDY.

\"CODE-3 MURPHY \" we had one of those too Fender.


Goose

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\"Live Free Or Die\"