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That question may soon be answered!!!! Found this on the Airforce Times site

German MiGs, missiles to be tested at Eglin

Associated Press


EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. — Seven of Germany’s Russian-designed MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters and their air-to-air missiles will be tested at this Florida Panhandle base over the next couple months.
The Luftwaffe jets were inherited from East Germany when it reunited with West Germany after the Cold War. They are scheduled to begin arriving May 9 with their German pilots and ground crews.

The testing will be part of a continuing program by the U.S. and German air forces to find out what the MiG-29s can do in combat, said Lt. Col. Scot Brown, director of advanced programs for the Eglin-based 28th Test Squadron.

Tension between President Bush and German Chancellor Gerhardt Schroeder over Germany’s refusal to support the war in Iraq will not affect the testing, Brown said.

“At the military-to-military level, we’ve had nothing but outstanding cooperation,” he said.

Of particular interest is getting a better grasp on how the MiGs and two types of air-to-air missiles, also Russian, work.

While here, the MiGs are expected to fly about 300 sorties including live-fire tests of AA-10 Alamo radar-homing and AA-11 Archer heat-seeking missiles. The weapons will be fired at target drones launched over the Gulf of Mexico from Tyndall Air Force Base, about 50 miles east of Eglin.

MiG pilots also will engage in mock dogfights with their counterparts from Eglin’s 33rd Fighter Wing flying F-15C Eagles.

The Fulcrum has been widely exported, including to Yugoslavia and Iraq.

The 33rd downed 16 Iraqi planes during the first Persian Gulf War, more than any other allied unit. The wing deployed again for the current conflict but returned home without any kills as no Iraqi planes dared take off.

Brown said the evaluation is important because the Luftwaffe soon will replace the MiG-29s with the delta-wing Eurofighter.




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Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman....Thomas Paine

It would definitely be interesting to see what the Fulcrum could do with US pilots at the controls and E-3 AWACS in actual combat.

Something tells me they'd be pretty scary.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

I think it will be interesting to see what the German pilots will be able to do against the F-15C's with neither side using AWACS.....

Have the German's updated them with Western electronics or do they still carry the Soviet era equipment? One would think the Mig-29 with Western electronics and dependable engines could be a very nasty aircraft.....

The doorway to freedom is framed with muskets... Charleton Heston

Yeah, but it's not realistic.

When does the USAF ever do ACM without AWACS in the real world?

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

Bad news for ya!

The Romanians have decommisioned all their Mig-29 Snipers as of January, 2003 due to high maintenance costs..... Your namsakes are history at the moment.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

http://www.deltawing.go.ro/mig29.htm
[url][/url]

The doorway to all freedoms is framed with muskets... Charleton Heston

LOL!

Good, i found that nickname for the Mig kinda insulting anyway!

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

You have to assume the possibility of not having AWACs and be prepared for the situation.

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

F-14D's operate very strong without AWACS support........another reason retiring them is assanine.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

I understand that Horrido, but it is MOST unlikely to ever occur.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Have the German's updated them with Western electronics or do they still carry the Soviet era equipment?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

They have been upgraded somehow. But they haven´t turned into a high-tech-fighter...
Here are some nice pix of a mig in usa-german special paint.
Click on the pic "die neue bunte"...

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/index_e.html

"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

[quote]
F-14D's operate very strong without AWACS support........another reason retiring them is assanine.

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D models are really sucking up maintenance hours. They use AWACs, E-2s aren't cheap and they launch them. Iraq War is probably the last deployment for Tomcats and Vikings.

It will be all Hornets directly.

Jack

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>D models are really sucking up maintenance hours. They use AWACs, E-2s aren't cheap and they launch them. Iraq War is probably the last deployment for Tomcats and Vikings.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes, the F-14 does use the E-2 for support, as well as AEGIS CG's, and DDG's........But the APG-71 is the most complete air to air radar in service today, save the APG-77.........14 has always been a maintenence hog, but with a sheduled retirement date of around 2008 the D Tomcat may have one or two fights left.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I understand that Horrido, but it is MOST unlikely to ever occur. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Never know, best to prepare for the worst to stay sharp........Complacentecy throughout history has brought empires down.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

Actually, because of the hours the airframes are racking up over Afghanistan and Iraq, they may retire before the 'B' Models....<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

"It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts."
- G. B. Burgin

I thought all the "D" airframes were either new builds or totally renewed airframes.

No?

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

Former East German pilots and Russian pilots who lived in the DDR served as training consultants/advisors to the German pilots inheriting the Mig29...and the upgrades to the actual planes where minimal.

"Speed puts me in the zone."

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Actually, because of the hours the airframes are racking up over Afghanistan and Iraq, they may retire before the 'B' Models.... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I find that odd.......Most the sorties over afghanistan were milk run bomb drops, though the Bombcat was the workhourse there, and the cat shots, traps, and bolters take their toll, the F-14 is a 7500 hr+ airframe.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I thought all the "D" airframes were either new builds or totally renewed airframes.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That is correct, most D models were new build, with a handfull being refurbished to D standard from A, A+ standard........all are renewed.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

That's what i thought.

They should be good to go for at least another ten years, fatigue wise.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

The D Tomcat will be retired around 2008, and I have read as late as 2010.........So the Tomcat still has a chance to some some Chinese, North Korean, or Syrian Mig/Suhkoi killing.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Former East German pilots and Russian pilots who lived in the DDR served as training consultants/advisors to the German pilots inheriting the Mig29...and the upgrades to the actual planes where minimal.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

NOPE!!!

You may be right about russians living in DDR but not about the east german pilots. Out of all of the east german pilots who wanted to remain flying jets only a VERY small number (less than a dozen) were accepted. Some were too tight with the communist party. Others were just crappy pilots. Guys with 2500 hours in the mig29 were found to not be up to the standards of even brand new wingmen in western air forces. They were simply trained to take off, fly headings given to them by ground control, fire when told, and to land. The few that were allowed to stay happened to be those guys who had some natural talent and could overcome their horrendous eastern training.

I wonder if a pilot of the DDR-NVA managed to get 2500 hours of Mig-29 in his flightbook... Sure there weren´t many.


"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

Back to the topic, the F-15C has always owned the MiG-29 in combat. Combat proves a plane not some testing drill.

Ask Iraq, Syria and Yugoslavia how good the MiG-29 adds up to the F-15C.

You're right about most of them being rejected. I never gave a number. But yes, only a handful could be classified as "aviators" at all. My initial source of info. wasn't what it was cracked up to be. Of course west german pilots were better...their forefathers were from the Luftwaffe. LOL. GBA people!

"Speed puts me in the zone."

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Ask Iraq, Syria and Yugoslavia how good the MiG-29 adds up to the F-15C. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Forget about that!! Ask just about any Arab country in the world how any single Mig or Sukhoi adds up to IAF F-4's and F-15A's

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

The only sukhoi the arabs have flown at the IDF/AF are the Su-7/20/22 which happen not to be fighters, but ground attackers........

And for the record we are not talking about the MiG-21MF/bises and MiG-23MFs the IDF/AF shot down with the F-15A but the MiG-29 and F-15C.

Yeah, but we're also talking about front line fighters, which the Mig-21/-23/-25 (Yes, the Arabs fly those, and yes, we shot the first one down) and the F-15A are.

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI