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Isn't there a clause in either the oath or the signed paperwork that reads to the extent "Until such specified period of time has expired <i>or longer if circumstances require</i>?


Livin' life in the fast lane and just passed a blur reading "BRIDGE OUT!"

BUT IF YOUR NOT GOING OVERSEAS YOU CAN GET OUT,

LETS SEE NOW HE REPORTED MONDAY AND WAS TO GET OUT IN DEC. BUT WILL DEPOLY IN MARCH FOR HOW LONG? AT THE RATE IT HAS GONE 18 MONTHS SO YOUR TELLING THIS GUY WHO HAS ALREADY FOUGHT IN THAT HELL HOLE TO GO BACK AGAIN LIKE HE WAS SOME WET BEHIND THE EAR,PART TIMER IN FOR EDUCATION BENEFITS FOR ANOTHER 24 MONTHS?

SORRY HE DID HIS TIME. HE DIDNT DITCH OUT HE JUST WANTS OUT AFTER HIS TOUR.
BIG DIFFERANCE THAN SOMEONE WHO "PLAYS" ARMY AND WHEN IT COMES TIME TO PLAY FOR REAL "CRIES I DIDNT SIGN UP FOR THIS"
THAT GOES FOR ALL THE BRANCHES.
"A FULL OUT WAR" NOBODY WOULD BE WORRING ABOUT GETTING OUT THEY WOULD BE CALLING ANYONE WHO COULD CARRY A GUN.
SO I WOULD BECAREFUL ABOUT CALLING HIM A "WHINNY BITCH".
THEN WHATS KEEPING THEM FROM TURNING AROUND REASSIGNING HIM TO A UNIT GOING NEXT TO IRAQ AND DOING IT AGAIN? AND ITS HAPPENED.

JUST BY LOOKING AT THE KIAS,ALOT OF THOSE GUYS DID MORE THAN 20 YRS AND COULDNT GET OUT BUT ENDED UP DEAD. I WOULD BE AFRAID TOO,I DONT PLAY ODDS VER WELL

SO WHAT IS A REASONABLE TIME?

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Not surprised about a soldier from San Fran.

Marge: There's someone here who I think can help you. Homer: Who, Batman? Marge: No he's a scientist. Homer: Batman's a scientist? Marge: It's not Batman!

I for one agree with Goose. The Army has a huge retention problem and stop loss should have been a temp fix. Here we are nearly two years later and these soldiers, that have done their hitch, are being called to go again. I say Bullcrap. Time to put soldiers from all theaters into the mix. Europe, Asia et al. These soldiers are tired and tired soldiers make bad decisions, at home and in the AOR. You know all along Uncle Sam has the upper hand in the so called enlistment contract. He can terminate it when he wants and he can extend it when he wants. You on the other hand can meet all requirements of your enlistment and still find yourself denied reenlistment or stop lossed. There is a point when Uncle asks to much. If you have meet your end of the bargin and Uncle needs you so be it, just hope Uncle has a plan to fix the bleeding artery with surgery not a bandaid. I am afraid Uncle is stuck on bandaids and those soldiers are just plain stuck.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

WELL SAID FENDER!,

I DONT THINK THE SAN FRAN COMES INTO PLAY BOOM,EXCEPT THE COURTS WOULD BE MORE FAVORFUL.(I WAS STATIONED IN THAT NECK OF THE ARMPIT AND I HATED IT)
I BET YOU COULD GO ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND FIND ALOT IN HIS SAME SHOES.





MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Time to put soldiers from all theaters into the mix. Europe, Asia et al.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Already have, that's how overextended the Army is.

The concept that the army is having retention problems is no more than a media lie.

The US Army has had the highest reenlistment rates in many years, and is meeting all recruiting goals.

Goose, Fender, you both know damned well that you are REQUIRED to serve 4 years in the IRR after your regular commitment is up(the same is true for reservists as far as i know). You can be legally called back to active duty for the entire extent of that 4 year period.

This guy is wrong, and has no legal ground to stand on.

If we tried to fight WWII based on your guys views, we'd have never been able to win.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

TO GET YOUR 9 YRS ITS EITHER ACTIVE OR RESERVE,HE'S GOT MORE THAN 12 YRS TOTAL TIME.
THE FOLKS WHO GOT RECALLED IRR DIDNT HAVE 9YRS IN
HIS IRR IS FILLED.

HE HAS A GOOD CASE,OTHERS ARE GETTING TO LEAVE DUE TO ROTATION OR JOB ASSIGNMENTS.
HE'S NOT ACTIVE DUTY,SO REALLY BY YOUR THOUGHT SNIPE AFTER THIS TOUR,FIGUREING 24 MONTHS TOTAL YOU SAY HE HAS ANOTHER 2 TO 4 YRS IRR DUTY STILL THAT HE COULD GO BACK TO IRAQ AGAIN THEN BE WITH IN A YEAR OF DOS BUT HIS UNIT GETS ORDERS AGAIN TO GO.
DOES HE HAVE TO RETURN A 3RD TIME

PLUS ON TOP OF THAT YOUR IRR IS BASED ON SEVERAL AREAS,I ONLY HAD TO SERVE 3 YRS OF IRR BECAUSE I HAD 3 YRS LEFT ON MY ENLISTMENT. I HAD 11 YRS IN.THIS GUYS IS UP IN 6 MONTHS

HERE'S A BIG QUESTION, "WHY IN THE HELL CANT HE ?" ITS HIS RIGHT TO ASK QUESTIONS.JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE OFFICERS OVER YOU ,DONT MEAN THEIR RIGHT ALL THE TIME EITHER.
SO IF THIS GUYS A BUM OR WHINNING BITCH ,MORON THEN LET HIM OUT.

IF SNIPES RIGHT ABOUT ARMY REENLISTMENT BEING AT A ALL TIME HIGH,THEN WHY ARE THEY NOT LETTING THEM OUT?
IF HE AINT GOT THE RIGHT TO SUE,THE COURT WILL RULE AGAINST HIM



MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

[urlhttp://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=INDI/url]
HAS THE RULES ON IRR

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Goose, Fender, you both know damned well that you are REQUIRED to serve 4 years in the IRR after your regular commitment is up(the same is true for reservists as far as i know). You can be legally called back to active duty for the entire extent of that 4 year period. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

But what happens when you have met these requirements and still the Army says give more? How many reservsits got sent to Vietnam 3 times involuntarily? What Rummy and Bush need to do is tell congress we need to increase overall manning of the Army. And then do it. They are strecthed way to thin.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

"PLUS ON TOP OF THAT YOUR IRR IS BASED ON SEVERAL AREAS,I ONLY HAD TO SERVE 3 YRS OF IRR BECAUSE I HAD 3 YRS LEFT ON MY ENLISTMENT. I HAD 11 YRS IN.THIS GUYS IS UP IN 6 MONTHS"

OK, then the proper time for him to do this is in 6 months, when his commitment is legally fulfilled. Right now, it's not.

Stop-loss blows, yes...but we all face that possibility of call up until our IRR runs out.

It also strikes me as odd that a guy with so many years in would have such a problem doing what he's obviously chosen to make his long term profession. I respect his right to ETS, but i never understood the 1/2 lifer mentality.

The problem with enlarging the size of the army is money. Budgets are tight as hell right now, increasing the force structure means weapons start getting cut(adding 30,000 troops would be extremely expensive). After the election you may very well see an overall force increase....however, it won't happen until after the election.

"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".

BIGVETTE,
BOTH OF YOUR EXAMPLES DONT HAVE A THING TO DO WITH IRAQ,DID THEY SERVE THERE?

HE'S DOING THE RIGHT THING,HE WANTS OUT AND DO YOU WANT SOMEONE WHOS PISSED-OFF COVERING YOUR BACK? I DONT THINK SO.

SNIPE HE DIDNT SAY HE DIDNT WANT TO FINISH HIS TOUR UP IN DEC.,HE JUST DOESNT WANT ANOTHER FLIPPING 18 MONTHS+ THATS WHAT HES FIGHTING.
PLUS WHAT SOME OF THE STORIES I'VE HEARD,
YOU BETTER DAMN WELL BELIEVE I WOULD BE F-ING SCARED TOO
PLUS YOU SAID IT,
"I'D HATE SERVE WITH HIM" VETTE AND HOW DID HE GET THE EXPREINACE? HE LEARNED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE,"ON THE JOB" SO JUNIOR LEARNS.

THE NAME CALLING JUST DOESNT CUT IT, UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN THERE AND SERVED KEEP THE NAMES TO YOURSELF

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I don't know if a lawsuit is the answer but as an officer who's been there and done that, I've sent people home when they were unfit, even when I was desperately short of bodies.

I'VE READ SINCE THIS WAS POSTED BUT CANT FIND A LINK JUST NEWSPRINT AND EMAILS THAT THIS SOLIDER HAD HIS ENLISTMENT EXTENDED WHILE IN IRAQ THE FIRST TIME PAST HIS DROS AND HAS BEEN SEEKING TREATMENT FOR PTSD.

SO THAT WOULD MAKE IT TWICE THEY "STOP GAP HIS ASS" PLUS IF HE'S REPORTING SUFFEREING FROM PSTD HE SHOULDNT BE GOING IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THAT HIS DEPLOYMENT IS NOW ON HOLD.

THERES MORE HERE THAN HAS BEEN SHOWN.

PLUS I'LL DEFERER TO THE OOE ON THE SERVICE IN IRAQ ISSUE



MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

If he's got shell shock, then no, he shouldn't be anywhere near the combat zone. He'll just get people killed.

Oh, and i do agree with goose about one thing. Calling a combat veteran names is uncalled for...remember, we do not have all the details wrt this situation.

"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".

Speaking from personal experience, I will say that you cannot tell if the man has had enough or just simply don't want to do this anymore. The first is justifiable. The second is "I don't care, you're qualified - you're going."

1 Brigade lost two people in this regard. One Cpl blew his brains with a shotgun rather than go back to Croatia. No one knew this was going to happen. The other was during our fight at Medac. A Master Warrant Officer got poisonned by his own people when he was too gung ho for their liking. In the second example, we, including this Officer, failed in even believing Canadian soldiers were this capable of treachery.

Is this guy off his rockers and shouldn't be deployed? I can only say that only sending him to Iraq would you find out.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
A Master Warrant Officer got poisonned by his own people when he was too gung ho for their liking. In the second example, we, including this Officer, failed in even believing Canadian soldiers were this capable of treachery.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

The guy wasnt poisned because he was gung ho, was because he was a major asshole and putting guys lives at risk due to his stupidity. I dont condone what they did to him, but i dont exactly feel sorry for him either. This was in my regiment and know several of the guys who were in the platoon at the time. As with any incident, it hard for people to make accurate judgement without all the details.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/a10warthog99/images/signature%202.jpg" border=0>

Whether or not MWO Stopford was out of line is not the issue. The issue was that he was poisoned. For that, there is no excuse. I didn't believe it when it occurred. I didn't believe it when the news broke and it took JAG to finally convince me that it did happenned. There is no justification no matter how much of an asshole MWO Stopford was.

BTW, you 1 or 3 PPCLI?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> But these guys all signed up volunatarily!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Correct, he did sign up for X amount of time. However he did not sign up for X plus 18months and oh oops plus 18 more months. Do you not believe you should be able to limit you volunteer status to the alloted time. With your way of thinking lets just do away with enlistment times and go with open ended enlistments. You sign up and dont get to leave until uncle says bye no matter how long it is. The Army way of fixing this is broke. They just recalled a 69 year old retired colonel from SC. Hell he did not retire until age 60 and now 9 years later they say they need a man that is nearly 70. Why, he is a Psychiatrist. He even said there should lots of younger men called up before him and I agree. When is enough enough?


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>When Kerry talks about adding troops to the Army I find it ironic in that the US Navy and Air Force seem to think otherwise in that they have streamlined many jobs and reduced their overall manpower in the past 5 years. The Army doesn't need more grunts to just take up space. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Air Force and Navy end-strength numbers have nothing to do with how many bodies the Army needs. Apples and Oranges. Hell the Army is actively recruiting Air Force and Navy personnel. It is called the Blue to Green program. I seriously doubt any increase in personnel would lead to grunts setting around.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Note I said I dont condone what happened. I was 1 RCR from 91-99.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/a10warthog99/images/signature%202.jpg" border=0>

I'm sorry. I'm confused. MWO Stopford was 2 PPCLI. The incident would have nothing to do with your regt.

Nice to meet another Canadian bellycrawler.



Edited by - Officer of Engineers on Aug 19 2004 05:21 AM