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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 13:40 
The soviets could not have intercepted Valkyrie, that was a flat out lie.

I've seen Stuart Slade get into that topic en depth, and he sure makes a 100% convincing argument that excuse was just a politically expedient ploy to get it axed.

According to Stuart even the origianl A model Valkyrie would've remained defacto unstoppable until the introduction of the Mig-31.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 14:32 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>According to Stuart even the origianl A model Valkyrie would've remained defacto unstoppable until the introduction of the Mig-31.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>



I don't know him, but does he think they could stop it now?

Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 15:00 
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I googled Stuart Slade and I realize am familiar with him, but as a ship performance analyst. I think he is qualified in that regard. I don't think his qualifications are as good when it comes to aircraft and missile performance. I looked at his bio and it seems to have a typo. He couldn't be 46 years old with an BS degree awarded in 1972, could he? If so he is the Doogie Howser of engineering. More likely he is 56. My BS degree is from 1972 also and I'm 55. Anyway, his bio is weak on things that fly. My background is stronger than his in the aviation stuff, and I am even weak in missiles and electronics. Anyway, I think his opinions on ships need to be reckoned with, probably because he worked on them in detail, but the other stuff is less reliable. I'd be interested in reading the XB-70 stuff though if you can give me a reference.

Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 16:00 
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Chasing SR-71 with another aircraft gets tricky mathwise. I've been reading the SR-71 manual on and off this week and it actually has a very low wing loading ( a lot lower than anything other than the F-22 ) and even though it is stress/stability limited to +3.5Gs it can pull that much at very high altitudes probobly much higher than MiG-31 so a head on intercept would be a one shot deal as turning around to try again would take forever. A tail chase would have to be timed just right so HABU was flying overhead as the MiG climbed up to it, after that it's up to the missle. The west had enough trouble trying to deal with Foxbat back then and the SR has a good bit more performance than the MiG-25.
The SR IS hittable, the CIA A-11/12s came back with shrapnel more than once, and with thrust vectoring at high alts and the larger warhead of SAMs it CAN be done.

A 45 has a muzzle.
A 9mm has a bullet vent.

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 16:30 
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damn stress you could be our daddy lol.


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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 18:45 
Stress:

Wow....first time i've ever seen anyone talk smack about Stuarts almost literally unmatched knowledge of strategic bombing...LOL. ;)

He's written several alternate history universe series that all revolve around strategic bombing.

http://p076.ezboard.com/bhistorypolitic ... fairs68862
There's a link to the board he's admin at. You can get "TBOVerse" and all his other fiction works there, as well as search that forum for all his posts. He's discussed Valkyrie at length on that board.

PS: Where did you find his bio?

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 18:50 
Boomer:

"The SR IS hittable, the CIA A-11/12s came back with shrapnel more than once, and with thrust vectoring at high alts and the larger warhead of SAMs it CAN be done."

Prove it. :)

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2006, 21:30 
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lol prove what?
They HAVE come back with shrapnel from CIA missions. I just meant the tech exists to make it vulnerable today, the fact that the SR-71 is out of service makes it unlikely the Soviets would build a missle solely for that purpose.

A 45 has a muzzle.
A 9mm has a bullet vent.

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2006, 10:45 
In truth the S-400 could probably handle a Blackbird. Well....maybe.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 11:45 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>PS: Where did you find his bio?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/default2_bioSS.htm

I hope this is the same guy.



Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 12:15 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
damn stress you could be our daddy lol.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I am going to let this obvious setup pass without a comment.

Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 12:47 
Yep, same guy.

He also has a TON of knowledge wrt nuclear devices and IADS sort of stuff. He spent quite a lot of time with the DoE i believe.

Truth is i've never asked for his complete background.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 12:47 
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lol gotta tease stress gotta tease.

With that said stress has anyone in the public domaine looked at the actual wear and tear on SR-71. I know they had high ratio of crash to number produced. Was this for the most part due to lack of sophisticated computers to maintain the aircraft in it flight envelope like the B-2 and F-117 have or was it more from wear and tear on the aircraft.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 13:16 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I know they had high ratio of crash to number produced.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That's news to me.

Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 14:31 
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ok if you look at then public sites there were a significant number of crashes especially in the early YF-12 http://www.sr-71.org/blackbird/losses.php


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 14:31 
Stress, i asked Mr.Slade for some clarification wrt his background, here's his response:

"Seer Stuart
(3/20/06 21:03 )

Good Lord, that's almost ten years old now - and it was heavily censored when I wrote it. Doesn't time fly. The IADS/nuclear stuff I did in the 1982-1988 and post-1990 periods (the Janes bit was marking time for 18 months while bureaucracy had its way).

The oil tanker and chemical bit was a bit more than it sounds as well.

At the time I put that together, I was mostly writing technical stuff on warships so I included the bits of my career appropriate to that. The rest I left out.

Edited by: Seer Stuart at: 3/20/06 21:05"

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 15:57 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
ok if you look at then public sites there were a significant number of crashes especially in the early YF-12 http://www.sr-71.org/blackbird/losses.php


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

If you take out pilot error and bad wheels you eliminate about half of the SR-71 losses. An engine explosion and some niggling system failurs ( as with all aircraft ) takes losses down to a fair number if you ask me.
Habu wasnt retired because they were worn out, they were retired because they were "too expensive" < cough BS cough > we have something better now.

A 45 has a muzzle.
A 9mm has a bullet vent.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2006, 17:26 
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I guess in out frame of reference I would not call it pilot error so easily. I am amazed at what they did with little to no advance flight computers, in a lot of ways that plane was still a stick and rudder plane. the computer was the pilots brain.


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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2006, 07:37 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Boomer:

"The SR IS hittable, the CIA A-11/12s came back with shrapnel more than once, and with thrust vectoring at high alts and the larger warhead of SAMs it CAN be done."

Sniper:
Prove it. :)

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<i>How about this concept?</i>

Air-Launched PAC-3 Missile Feasible, Says Senior Lockheed Martin Official (Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2006)
[Defense Daily, March 21, 2006]

By Michael Sirak

Lockheed Martin's [LMT] engineering analysis to date has shown that launching its Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) interceptor off of fighter aircraft to shoot down ballistic and cruise missiles is feasible, a senior company official said yesterday.

"We are convinced that you can do it," Mike Trotsky, vice president of Air and Missile Defense programs at Lockheed Martin, told Defense Daily during a company-sponsored luncheon on March 20.

Lockheed Martin has been studying the viability of the concept, which is dubbed "Air-launched Hit to Kill," for the Missile Defense Agency (MDA) (Defense Daily, Oct. 13, 2004). The focus of the activities is on operating the normally ground-launched PAC-3 from Air Force F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft, said Trotsky. However, the same principals would apply to the company's other anti-missile interceptor, the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) missile, and potentially to newer fighter aircraft like Lockheed Martin's own F-22 Raptor, he said.

Trotsky said Lockheed Martin is in the process of concluding its fundamental engineering analysis. The company is now defining what the next stage would be in maturing the concept, if government sponsorship continues. A flight demonstration within two to four years could be possible, he said.

The company has begun talks with Air National Guard (ANG) units that fly the F-15 and F-16. The belief, said Trotsky, is that this mission would be a good fit for the ANG units since they fly most of the combat air patrols over the United States. Carrying a PAC-3 or two on their wings would give these aircraft another arrow in their quiver of weapons to protect U.S. skies from airborne threats. Further, the ANG is expected to continue to operate F-15s and F-16s for decades to come even as the newer aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter fill active-duty ranks.

Trotsky said the challenge of the air-launched concept is not so much in firing the PAC-3 from the aircraft, which is actually a straightforward process, but rather in devising the best way in which to tie the aircraft into battlefield data-sharing networks and balance onboard and offboard processing of data so that the pilots can engage the threat missiles in time. This issue would take on even greater importance with the THAAD missile since it has a much greater range than the PAC-3 and would need to be tied with offboard sensors to be utilized fully.

One advantage of firing a PAC-3 off of a fighter is that the velocity of the aircraft when the missile is launched helps to extend the range of the missile significantly, said Trotsky.

Lockheed Martin is developing an enhanced version of the current PAC-3 missile for the Army that it calls the PAC-3 Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) interceptor (Defense Daily, July 14, 2003). It is designed to counter more sophisticated threats via a larger, more powerful motor for added thrust, and larger fins and other structural modifications for improved agility.

Trotsky said the MSE missile would be a potent weapon on a fighter for dealing with sophisticated, maneuvering ballistic missiles.

A system-level critical design review of the MSE missile is expected within the next month or two, he said. The MSE missile is expected to enter U.S. inventories around the end of the decade.


Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

Edited by - a10stress on Mar 21 2006 06:38 AM

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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2006, 09:52 
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so let me understand this, is Lockheed after ALLLL the money now? lol
And didnt we learn our lesson about dealing with guys named "Trotsky" <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Hey this idea is at leaste as viable as launching ICBMs out the back door of a 747 was lol subsequently updated to use C-17s.

A 45 has a muzzle.
A 9mm has a bullet vent.

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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2006, 11:59 
Of course it's feasible.

The Iranians supposedly rigged Hawks to fire from T-cats, no reason a PAT couldn't work on a fighter too.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2006, 13:03 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
so let me understand this, is Lockheed after ALLLL the money now?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes. All we want is a fair advantage, and a days work for a weeks pay.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And didn't we learn our lesson about dealing with guys named "Trotsky" <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<img src="http://facade.com/celebrity/photo/Leon_Trotsky.jpg" border=0>

No, but here is a picture of the infamous Trotsky... Leon, not Mike. Leon has some diabolical look happenin' and could not get any girls and could not make a living, so I reckon he became a communist intellectual. At least that was my observation in college. RIP Leon, (creepy).

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Hey this idea is at least as viable as launching ICBMs out the back door of a 747 was lol subsequently updated to use C-17s.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

At least indeed! They tested it pushing a Minuteman from a C-5. Back in the Jimmy Carter days, wasn't it? I am not the first person to go on record as saying it is ill advised to be flying around with nuclear armed ICBM's in trash haulers am I? I shudder to think.


Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2006, 15:18 
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The Russians set up a variation of their SA-10/S-300 missile to be launched from Flankers as extra-long-range heavy asset killers. I would imagine you could use an air-launched Patriot to do the same.

Crushed under his own mental block...


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