WT Forums

It's been going downhill for a while now. Doing away with the fourth class sytem didn't help any, either.

TG, I may be wrong but it has been my observation from the enlisted side of the house Academy Grads are not the same quality now as they were 22 years ago when I came in. It used to be you could pick out the AFA grads by their professionalism. Now you can still do it but for the most part it is by their lack of professionalism. The most unprofessional, immature Capt I have ever seen graduated from the AFA. The 2nd Lt's coming out of their are still acting like high schoolers. Maybe it because I am getting older or just fed up with the way things are now. However I hold on to my belief that the AFA produced better officers years ago than it is now. In the maintenance world I have seen numerous proir enlisted become excellent officers recently to the point they outshine their AFA conterparts. Oh well come on Jun 05, my retirement date.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

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TG, I may be wrong but it has been my observation from the enlisted side of the house Academy Grads are not the same quality now as they were 22 years ago when I came in. It used to be you could pick out the AFA grads by their professionalism. Now you can still do it but for the most part it is by their lack of professionalism. The most unprofessional, immature Capt I have ever seen graduated from the AFA. The 2nd Lt's coming out of their are still acting like high schoolers. Maybe it because I am getting older or just fed up with the way things are now. However I hold on to my belief that the AFA produced better officers years ago than it is now. In the maintenance world I have seen numerous proir enlisted become excellent officers recently to the point they outshine their AFA conterparts. Oh well come on Jun 05, my retirement date.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields
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IMO, the different service academy's are a waste of infrastructure $$$ for the DOD. If I were king for a day, I'd want to close the USAF, USN, and West Point as-such, and consolidate them into a "US Military Academy (which of the physical sites TBD). That way, everyone can get the same training their 1st and 2nd year, then branch off into their particular service for their 3rd/4th year. You put in a dream sheet for the service you'd like to be in, and you're selected from a combination of needs of the service, what's available, and your dream sheet. I'd still retain the US Merchant Marine and USCG Academy's since they're specialized to their own non-DOD mission (aside from the USCG/DOD wartime relationship).

I agree that the quality of graduates has been dropping in recent years (decades?). When I was attending the Academy, I remember thinking how proud I would be to say I was a product of that institution. Shortly after graduation, I changed the way I wanted people to see me. There were so many (my class and other classes) that felt they were so high and mighty simply because they attended the AFA. This was my new measure: If I told someone I went to the academy, and they were surprised by it, I felt I had achieved something. I never bought a class ring and still have no interest in obtaining one.

Looking back on what I experienced there, it seems to me that the removal of the fourth class system is not going to solve any problems. If anything, it'll create more. What we (as cadets) we sorely lacking was some kind of upper class system. Once you got through your first year, you were pretty much let go. As a doolie, you were watched, critiqued and corrected just about 24 hours a day. Come the day after recognition, there was nothing. What passes for an upperclass sytem today is an allowance of privilege, not a discipline system.

Fender, I have seen what you're talking about many times over. I am sometimes ashamed to see what that place is turning out. I can't say I was the best product to ever come out of that place, but I certainly don't feel I am any better than an officer that received their commission from ROTC, OTS or direct commissioning. Anothing failing of the Academy is not teaching interaction with the enlisted. I would have had no idea how to work with our enlisted had my father not taught me the importance of the officer/enlisted relationship (he was Army enlisted for 24 years) and the role respect plays in it.

These problems are just the tip of the iceberg.