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Hi,

I'm new to the site, and I was wondering if anyone's got any REAL close up pics of the decelerons in the open & closed positions. I'm just building up an old Monogram A-10 in 1/48th scale & the thing comes with Decelerons jammed in the open position - not exactly ideal for a parked bird!

I'm after some pics of both inside and outside surfaces, so I can decide whether to cut & shut the original parts, or just start from scratch.

I've just finished completely re-scribing all the panel lines, cos they're raised on the kit, so I'm determined to get this right, but can't seem to find any good reference material on these parts.

As an aside, I notice that on some hogs the refuelling nozzle on the nose is recessed, but on others just seems flat - almost like a graphic. What's the score there?

Any help is appreciated.


Mike. UK

Mike, The refueling receptacle is resessed, but only when in the ready position. A small panel opens when it is about to hit a tanker. But when it is closed and flying normally, this is completley hidden from view, and looks like any other panel on the jet. I'll look through my computor as soon as I get a chance and see if I can find any pics of these, I'm sure I have them, it's just a matter of finding them.

Without ME, it's just AWESO

Check back here next week. We'll be adding an A-10 modelers section.

"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".

And please don't be a stranger, Mike. I'm gonna be starting a series of 1/72 A-10s, here, pretty soon. Our club here in the US cleaned-up this year at the US IPMS Nationals this August, which isn't bad for our two state-college/farm towns!

You're among friends, and welcome to the board!

Livin' life in the fast lane and just passed a blur reading "BRIDGE OUT!"

Firstly - Thanks VERY much for the warm welcome. I can't wait to see the modelling section. I suspected the refueller did a disappearing trick, but i've seen pics of a few hogs on the ground with it on display - that's what threw me!

I'm now waiting with baited breath for pics of the decelerons - I hope i'm not going to have to make my own... I'd much rather I could butcher the existing ones. I suppose it serves me right for not buying the Tamiya kit, but the Monogram one, besides being very old, was the only one I could get the Verlinden update kit for.

More news at 11!

Mike UK

If I remember correctly, the Tamiya kit is actually older than the Monogram one, but I haven't seen the Tamiya, though I do have the Monogram kit partially built. How are the differences extreme enough that you couldn't use the Verlinden kit on the Tamiya one?

What resource references do you have? Squadron's <i>Walk Around: A-10 Warthog</i> has some decent ones of some of the mechanism while closed, and I believe <i>Detail and Scale</i> has an A-10 book out there that should have such photos. I'm just hoping the people with time on the Hawg stop by our forum and are willing to help us out, now and then. There's also Pete's massive gallery on this website, if you haven't searched through it, already.

Also, have you been surfing modelling websites for reviews? I learned a lot of interesting information and leads that can be gleaned from them, though sometimes suspect.

Livin' life in the fast lane and just passed a blur reading "BRIDGE OUT!"

Don't forget the "external changes to the A-10" and paint schemes which can be found on my site...

http://www.warthogpen.com/modeling.html

I have some pics of the deceleron if I can find them...

Ugly But Well Hung

Mike - I just sent you an email with some pics.

Anybody - I'd heard about the 2 scoops being removed for the IFFCC mod, but <i>why</i> are they being removed?

Without ME, it's just AWESO

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Mike - I just sent you an email with some pics.

Anybody - I'd heard about the 2 scoops being removed for the IFFCC mod, but <i>why</i> are they being removed?

Without ME, it's just AWESO
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

jackb, better airflow over the ACA vane. With the old computer the AOA imputs could be "tweeked" to get good results but, with the new IFFCC computer better airflow was needed for the fire control system.

Ugly But Well Hung

<font face='Tahoma'>You guys are incredible! Thanks for all the pics Jack - well impressed. Going back to the Tamiya kit, I understand that it's been updated to reflect the latest changes, but I read somewhere that the Revell/Monogram version was STILL the most accurate.

I presume that's after you discount the raised panel lines! They took me a couple of nights to re-scribe using Dymo label tape as my ruler. With a Bare Metal scribing tool, they make a really good combination, and (for the most part) avoids having to sand the line to remove the raised edges to the furrow that using a needle or similar can use. The Bare Metal tool actually removes a sliver of plastic & leaves a nice tidy line - You do have to be careful not to apply too much pressure though, as the tool can judder, making the line appear almost dashed! Too many cuts at the wrong angle can also lead to flared widened lines, which doesn't look very realistic.

Anyway - the last bit needing scribing are the nacelles round the main undercart. Anyone have any good pics of these?

Mike.

</font id='Tahoma'>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>jackb, better airflow over the ACA vane. With the old computer the AOA imputs could be "tweeked" to get good results but, with the new IFFCC computer better airflow was needed for the fire control system. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

aaahhhh, I see, ok, but then why were the scoops installed in the first place? Why not have the best possible airflow over the vane since the beginning?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Anyway - the last bit needing scribing are the nacelles round the main undercart.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>Main undercart? Maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but what exactly are you referring to?

Without ME, it's just AWESO

Jackb, the scoops were installed at a time when the gun powder didn't burn as fast and as clean as the powder does today. The scoops were installed to allow "by-pass" air to pull the gases out of the gun bay to prevent "over-pressure" in the bay and also to help prevent secondary ignition of unburned gases. BTW if you look at early pictures of the A-10 they didn't have the scoops, they were added after gun tests using the DT&E aircraft. I think they were added in the late 70s-early 80s.

Also added was the lower "chin-scoop" and a 2.something degree down-tilt of the gun barrels to force the gases under the aircraft and away from the engines. You have to remeber the A-10 was being produced at the same time the first 6 DT&E aircraft were still testing the aircraft and it's systems. Take a close look at the nose of the A-10 from the first two YA-10s, the 6 DT&E aircraft, and the production aircraft...

They were needed before but not need now, in fact they haven't been needed for a few years but.... why pay to have them removed if you didn't have to.

Ugly But Well Hung





Edited by - Dice-man on Aug 25 2004 4:12 PM

MIKEIW,

I HAVE ONE OF EACH OF THE 1/48 SCALE A-10'S IN PRODUCTION I COULD FIND.

ZHENGDEFU (CHINA)
MONOGRAM/REVELL
TAMIYA
AMT/ERTAL

THE TAMYIA WAS A GOOD KIT EARLY, THE AMT/ERTA HAS THE MOST "CRAP"
GUN IS A SEPRATE PART,FLIGHT LINE CREW ,JAMMER,AGE TRACTOR.

I DONT HAVE A CLUE ON THE CHINA ONE,STILL SEALED AND HAS "WR" MARKINGS.

HEY HORRIDO,
I FOUND ANOTHER 1/144TH KIT IN MY JUNK.

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Cool! Got plans for it? Eventually, in my line-up of A-10s, one of the '72s is going to be an opened-up (crewchief's special) one of 166 in ODS. Still trying to figure out in which order I want them built, though, because I want to keep the first ones simple in construction to get familiar with the kit, and then go from there (thinking about the snow scheme, then a modified gray from either OEF or OIF [any crewchiefs/pilots out there up for having their's modeled?], then Ed's 166).

Livin' life in the fast lane and just passed a blur reading "BRIDGE OUT!"

Edited by - Horrido on Aug 25 2004 5:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You have to remeber the A-10 was being produced at the same time the first 6 DT&E aircraft were still testing the aircraft and it's systems. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
O.K, cool, I was aware of part of your explanation, but not of that part. Much clearer now. Thanks for straightening me out.


Without ME, it's just AWESO

Most people think because the first 6 DT&E aircraft were 73 models they had a two year testing period before the first production aircraft was built but that is not the fact. Because of political pressure the two YA-10s were forced to do a fly-off with the A-7 (which it won of cource) in 1974 so the 6 DT&E aircraft were not built until 1975, the same year the production aircraft rolled of the line, testing ran along side production of the A-10.

Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Main undercart? Maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but what exactly are you referring to?

Without ME, it's just AWESO
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Sorry... I mean the fairing into which the main landing gear retracts (except for the tips of the wheels), under each wing.

Mike

Mike, they are called gear PODS and there's not much in there and might be more trouble to detail than they are worth...unless people will be able to see under the model itself.

Ugly But Well Hung

I would like to clarify the tail number "Gap" too. The development contract was signed in 1973 so those tail numbers reflect that fact. We were busy engineering and building the first six in '73, '74, '75 while some flight testing on the prototypes continued. Most of that was armament testing, I think, especially the GAU-8 integration and airborne firing. One of the outcomes of the gun testing on the prototype was the depression angle it has relative to the fuselage. It took many years to build all six DT&E aircraft, so there was not really a gap in production. In 1975 a decision needed to be made to start low rate production, and I think the A-7 flyoff was part of that process. The program was in good shape overall so the contract for the next lot of airplanes was signed in 1975. The tail numbers pick up there. Although there were many differnces in details over the years, they were not big enough to warrant a model change to B, or C etc. We did have drawing board designations for B and C models but they were not built. The B was a production 2 seater. I am very fuzzy on the C, I think it was a single seat with major avionics and systems changes. I don't know. Like I said, it's fuzzy. I may be dreaming. Some detail changes I can think of were substituting the ACES II seat for the ESCAPAC, a different HUD?, fatigue fixes for structure (405 frame & Aux longeron, lower wing skins) and substituting an aluminum plate for titanium in the aft wall of the cockpit armor. Later on the leading edges of the wing were changed from honeycomb to built up aluminum to increase bird strike protection. There were many others, like the gun gas purge scoops.

THE CRAPTOR ENGINEERING TEAM <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
"The F-22...It's the poo"

Edited by - a10stress on Aug 26 2004 07:41 AM

_________________
????

HORRIDO,
DROP ME YOUR ADDY AND I'LL PITCH IT TOO YOU,PLUS I HAVE 2 1/72'S

sgtgoose1@mwisp.net

I'M GOING TO START CLEARING THEM OUT.I FOUND A HOME FOR THE BIG ONE NOW TO FIND HOMES FOR THE REST.

SEE THE LIST ABOVE WHAT I HAVE LEFT THERE ALL IN 1/48.

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Done, and thank you!

Livin' life in the fast lane and just passed a blur reading "BRIDGE OUT!"

GOT IT<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Mike -

Check out http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com if you haven't already.

If you take a look at the walkaround section, you should be able to find some decent pictures of what you're looking for.

Additionally, you can look at the A-10 models that have been built up on that website and see what kind of work that has been done. Very impressive!

Be advised, if you wind up closing the decelerons, they DO NOT sit inline with the flaps in the fully retracted position. The edges of the decelerons sit much higher than the trailing edges of the flaps. First few times I rejoined on my flight lead during the A-10 RTU, I almost told him that his flaps were in the takeoff position until I took a good look and realized how the flaps look in relation to the trailing edges of the decelerons.

Good luck, and post pictures when you're done!

ATTACK!



Edited by - thunderstruck on Aug 30 2004 2:08 PM

DICE YOU GOING TOBULID ANY MODELS?

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
DICE YOU GOING TOBULID ANY MODELS?

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Goose, some may say I shouldn't build anymore models...just ask prkiii or Hitler...<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly But Well Hung